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    Still struggling in Randori?

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    JudokaRo
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    Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by JudokaRo on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:53 am

    Hello everyone,

    I'm a former member of the other place and made my transition over here. Anyways, I seem to still be really struggling in Randori. I've been practicing Judo consistently for about 4 years and although I can perform uchikomi decently in some instances I seem to REALLY struggle with opportunity and commitment to throws.

    Don't get me wrong, I definitely have my periods where I do well. I scored two Waza-aris and an ippon on a black belt last night with Tani Otoshi, Ouchi Gari, and the ippon was from De Ashi Harai.

    I've also gotten an Uranage, De Ashi Harai, and Harai Goshi on a sankyu the other week, but it feels so forced and I don't feel like I can ever hit the throws I want to throw. It just feels...wrong?

    My Sensei has said that for some odd reason I've gotten tremendously better in terms of movement and footwork, but I don't find myself constantly attacking like the other students.

    I find that I tend to lie in wait until I feel like something presents itself, but by that time I'm usually in a position where I have to counter.

    How do you guys normally go about Randori and what advice could you share to help me pull off those Seoi-Nages and Uchi-Matas?

    Thank you.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:23 am

    JudokaRo wrote:Hello everyone,

    I'm a former member of the other place and made my transition over here. Anyways, I seem to still be really struggling in Randori. I've been practicing Judo consistently for about 4 years and although I can perform uchikomi decently in some instances I seem to REALLY struggle with opportunity and commitment to throws.

    Don't get me wrong, I definitely have my periods where I do well. I scored two Waza-aris and an ippon on a black belt last night with Tani Otoshi, Ouchi Gari, and the ippon was from De Ashi Harai.

    I've also gotten an Uranage, De Ashi Harai, and Harai Goshi on a sankyu the other week, but it feels so forced and I don't feel like I can ever hit the throws I want to throw. It just feels...wrong?

    My Sensei has said that for some odd reason I've gotten tremendously better in terms of movement and footwork, but I don't find myself constantly attacking like the other students.

    I would venture to guess that your sensei is telling you this as a means to reinforce that you are doing the right things to improve.



    I find that I tend to lie in wait until I feel like something presents itself, but by that time I'm usually in a position where I have to counter.

    How do you guys normally go about Randori and what advice could you share to help me pull off those Seoi-Nages and Uchi-Matas?

    Thank you.

    In short you have to understand why you are failing those throws and come to grips on the real reason why you are not attacking as much. That is my opinion. Every time I randori and an attack fails I know exactly why it fails and what I didn't do properly. It really does come down to repetition and practice. It took me a few years to be able to do seoi nage without dropping to both my knees. My uchimata is finally starting to come around. I think when you eliminate the mystery of why your attacks are failing you'll have an understanding what you need to fix it and you'll see improvement over time.

    JudokaRob

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    Join date : 2013-02-14

    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by JudokaRob on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:45 am

    Seoinage and uchimata, well it's more of a kosei style which is technically Jane, seem to be my best throws in nage nagekomi and uchikomi.

    I really try to focus on being relaxed in randori and to flow without being stiff in the slightest.

    I know that I have issues with rotating in deep enough for seoinage and for the uchimata I tend to do my best with that after a failed sasae or Giza guruma.

    The way I randori can be summed up like this.

    I will try to counter a throw if possible, but once I feel that someone has it, including a junior I just go with their movements and let them throw me. I've never been an overly aggressive person and it hurts me shiai against those who are.

    hedgehogey

    Posts : 103
    Join date : 2012-12-30

    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:06 am

    1: Stop counting times you get thrown in randori. Start counting successful, non-counter attacks.

    2: Relatedly, don't lie in wait for an opportunity to counter. Use footwork and gripping (subtly, not with too much arm strength) to create opportunities.

    3: Get closer to him. No, closer.

    4: Relax your god damn arms.

    5: Do more moving uchi komi/nage komi. These translate more directly to randori. Have your partner try to resist or counter.

    JudokaRob

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    Join date : 2013-02-14

    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by JudokaRob on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:13 am

    Hedgehogey. Don't beat me again at shiai, okay? I'm still hurting from that armbar. Hahaha. Thank you.

    I do try to stay relaxed and don't count how much I'm getting thrown. I'm still learning to close the distance, though. Closing distance and angles are difficult for me. Will you be at the fairfax open this weekend?

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:36 am

    Wait you're in my club? That was all just extrapolation from stuff i've seen newbies do.


    JudokaRob

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by JudokaRob on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:06 am

    I'm not in your club, but I fought you at Shiai and finally started Bjj. I still take pride in lasting 32 seconds against you when everyone was beat by you in 7 seconds, hahaha.

    Got my Sensei with a clean flower sweep and went into a bow and Arrow choke from top and he's 220. I'm 175.

    JudokaRob

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by JudokaRob on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:10 pm

    Figure I'd report back. I threw two super clean sode tsurikomi goshis tonight. Both flawless to the point where they felt effortless. Both of my partners were in complete shock afterwards.

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:01 pm

    Oh at the promotionals like three years ago? Or at MD Open?

    JudokaRob

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by JudokaRob on Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:11 pm

    Eastern Open about 3 years ago. I think you have the vid still up on your youtube channel.

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:22 pm

    Oh, it's you! Well I hope the advice was helpful.

    JudokaRob

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by JudokaRob on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:37 pm

    Definitely, granted I separated a rib from bridging too hard to escape from Tate shiho,, but hey, two good throws make up for it!

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:59 pm

    Bridge, drop, one leg straight and heavy on the mat between his feet, turn onto the side of the heavy leg, other leg goes over top of that one and scrapes his foot over yours until you're in half guard.

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by hedgehogey on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:52 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX70BnQgBG0 This one, although I don't find the step where he lifts the foot strictly necessary
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    sodo

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by sodo on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:26 pm

    Hi JudokaRob,

    I am taking HH's post as a basis for elaboration, hope he doesn't mind Very Happy


    1: Stop counting times you get thrown in randori. Start counting successful, non-counter attacks.


    Better still stop counting at all Arrow randori is about quality and not quantity, try and remeber what you did and how and not how often Idea


    2: Relatedly, don't lie in wait for an opportunity to counter. Use footwork and gripping (subtly, not with too much arm strength) to create opportunities.

    solid advice that is easily said but very difficult to put into practice, remeber there are many different forms of randori, f.e. you can agree with your partner in advance that there wilbe no counter throws, or that one will attack and the other avoid (not counter) until a throw is made
    then you swap, There are many variations that can help train specific attributes, ask your instructor, he should be able to advise.

    3: Get closer to him. No, closer.
    Although I have not seen you practice it is a common mistake for defensive judoka to keep excesive distance because uke has to cover more ground to attack you get a sort of built in early warning system cyclops This is also something that your instuctor should be able to advise on.


    4: Relax your god damn arms.

    Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

    5: Do more moving uchi komi/nage komi. These translate more directly to randori.

    See above about different forms of randori

    Have your partner try to resist or counter.

    Do not do this now, you have to get moving and attacking once you have reached this point your partner can increase resistance.

    atb

    sodo



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    Hanon

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by Hanon on Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:30 am

    JudokaRob wrote:

    Got my Sensei with a clean flower sweep and went into a bow and Arrow choke from top and he's 220. I'm 175.

    I have no idea what you are talking about. Smile

    Generation gap I guess? Question

    "Flower sweep into a bow and arrow" Sounds like a fight in a flower shop? clown

    Mike Wink


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    sodo

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by sodo on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:54 pm

    Hanon wrote:
    JudokaRob wrote:

    Got my Sensei with a clean flower sweep and went into a bow and Arrow choke from top and he's 220. I'm 175.

    I have no idea what you are talking about. Smile

    Generation gap I guess? Question

    "Flower sweep into a bow and arrow" Sounds like a fight in a flower shop? clown

    Mike Wink

    Neither did I but I ignored it Very Happy

    atb

    sodo


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    hedgehogey

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by hedgehogey on Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:37 am

    Flower sweep is when he lifts one knee when you're armbarring him so you sweep him by underhooking that knee, bringing it close to your head, and a loading and rolling action of the hips. Bow and arrow choke is okuri eri jime.
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    rjohnston411

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by rjohnston411 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:34 am

    I'm also struggling along in randori as a Rokkyu, but lately I've hit a few awesome de ashi barai and ko soto gari by intentionally attacking with them. I'm also trying to relax, stay upright and move more. I assume I will get better gradually but it's better than not at all.
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    NittyRanks

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    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by NittyRanks on Thu May 23, 2013 5:14 am

    I know what you mean it's a constant learning process and can be frustrating. I try not to think of it to much because if you get discouraged enough you will quit. I have seen it happen.

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by Hanon on Thu May 23, 2013 8:14 am

    Randori is a time to test and learn in practical action the gokyo. Randori should be mentally easy as there is no score and no misuse of ego etc.
    Judo is never 'easy' regardless of rank and experience there are always times of challenge. One either enjoys that of quits judo. That is also a major part of how judo is used as a vehicle for developing the character. Those who look for quick gratification are generally disappointed with judo. Those who are willing to continue week after week battling away are best suited to judo and will take the most from its lessons.

    Judo, in all forms, is very demanding. it is a full contact martial activity. Patience and perseverance are needed or need to be learned and practiced in parallel with the physical aspects. No one, I mean, no one finds judo a walk in the park, not now or at any time in ones career. Its all about the travel rather than the destination.

    Every time we step on a tatami we are making progress.

    Mike


    _________________
    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.

    JudokaRob

    Posts : 8
    Join date : 2013-02-14

    Re: Still struggling in Randori?

    Post by JudokaRob on Thu May 30, 2013 1:36 am

    It has been a little while since I last posted, but I have an update.

    I still struggle in Randori, but my movement appears to be better.

    I come from a relatively small Judo club of about 4 or 5 people if we are lucky and at my last shiai/promotional I managed to score highest on the written portion, the demonstration portion, and I won all of my fights by ippon. I threw with harai goshi and o soto gari for two of my matches and the other two involved me winning by shime-waza and kansetsu-waza.

    I was told I was the first person from the club in years to perform that superbly on every facet of the promotional.

    My Judo has also helped me gain an advantage in jiu-jitsu tournaments. Sasae, O Soto, and Ko Soto/De Ashi tend to work well in that arena.

    Thank you everyone for the input.

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