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    Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

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    Kaikun

    Posts : 2
    Join date : 2013-02-20

    Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by Kaikun on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:47 am

    Just need some expert clarification on this. I am in the Blue and my shoulder was never touching the Tatami and IMO I was not in a Osaekomi and was waiting for Matte. I was not in any choke and could have easily turned more on my stomach but didn't see a need to. When I apply my Kesa Gatame,Yoko Shiho or Kami Shiho my main objective is to clearly pin the shoulder/back on the Tatami. The Judo definition for Osaekomi?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6otgW3EPfyA

    Old Chestnut

    Posts : 35
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by Old Chestnut on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:09 am

    I'm very much a beginner, but...upon hearing "osaekomi!" wouldn't it have been a good idea to do something other than maintain your position?

    finarashi

    Posts : 449
    Join date : 2013-01-11
    Location : Finland

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by finarashi on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:34 am

    1. The position of your legs and lower body doesn't mean anything unless you can wrap them around the other players legs.
    2. The position of your upper body seems to be mostly towards back. The video is cut and the angle is bad but typically at least less than 45 degrees needs to be achieved for a brief period and then 90 degrees not broken.
    3. The position of the tori corresponds to osaekomi positions
    so 1+2+3 means that it was valid osaekomi.


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    JudoMum

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    Join date : 2012-12-29
    Location : England

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by JudoMum on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:56 am

    osaekomi does seem to have quite a fluid definition in practice - at his last competition, my son was being held but completely sat up - torso vertical, back and both shoulders fully off the tatami, but the counter continued. As far as he or I knew, the hold should have been considered broken and the counter stopped. But hey ho, he is on a steep learning curve, and one of the things he needs to learn is that a condition of entering competitions is the acceptance that the decision of the ref is final.

    At times this is a very hard thing for him - he's been armlocked in an under 16 'no armlocks and strangles' comp with the fight being awarded to the person breaking the rule, and has been picked up by a direct attacking leg grab in golden score, with the opponent being awarded the fight for the throw that followed - these happened in two consecutive weekends and did put him into a bit of a spin. He came to the conclusion that as much as he loves to compete, it's actually the judo that is the most important thing to him, and as angry/frustrated as he felt, if he wanted to continue he would just have to learn to get on with it.

    Taiobroshi

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    Join date : 2012-12-27
    Age : 25
    Location : New York

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by Taiobroshi on Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:31 am

    JudoMum wrote:osaekomi does seem to have quite a fluid definition in practice - at his last competition, my son was being held but completely sat up - torso vertical, back and both shoulders fully off the tatami, but the counter continued. As far as he or I knew, the hold should have been considered broken and the counter stopped. But hey ho, he is on a steep learning curve, and one of the things he needs to learn is that a condition of entering competitions is the acceptance that the decision of the ref is final.

    At times this is a very hard thing for him - he's been armlocked in an under 16 'no armlocks and strangles' comp with the fight being awarded to the person breaking the rule, and has been picked up by a direct attacking leg grab in golden score, with the opponent being awarded the fight for the throw that followed - these happened in two consecutive weekends and did put him into a bit of a spin. He came to the conclusion that as much as he loves to compete, it's actually the judo that is the most important thing to him, and as angry/frustrated as he felt, if he wanted to continue he would just have to learn to get on with it.

    In these cases and the case of the original poster, acknowledge that local tournaments are usually the place where they train new referees. At a tournament this weekend I saw a senior female almost get her arm ripped off because the referee was standing 10 feet away and gave the quietest "Ippon!" I've ever heard in my life. Uke was tapping the mat because it was a belly-down arm bar, but the room was so loud that tori couldn't hear it. This is the worst case scenario for local reffing- consider everything else a learning experience.

    To OP- what did it cost you? A cheap medal? The biggest prize is that you now know that newaza could use some work. Regardless of the fact that you don't think it was a pin, it was still a bad position to be in. In higher divisions with a) more skilled players or b) armbars allowed you would have been threatened with a submission.

    Kaikun

    Posts : 2
    Join date : 2013-02-20

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by Kaikun on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:01 am

    Old Chestnut wrote:I'm very much a beginner, but...upon hearing "osaekomi!" wouldn't it have been a good idea to do something other than maintain your position?

    I did not hear Osaekomi so I did not think that I was even close to being in an Osaekomi. After viewing the video the Ref. did say Osaekomi. It was a local tournament and it was more practice for me than anything else since I am gearing up for International competition. I got thrown because I was trying a move to see if it would work in competition. I just hope that others can benefit from this video. BTW I am the most stiff person around and not flexible so trust me when I say I was more on my stomach. I am a positive person so I learn and go on from there.

    Hanon

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    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by Hanon on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:15 am

    Kaikun wrote:Just need some expert clarification on this. I am in the Blue and my shoulder was never touching the Tatami and IMO I was not in a Osaekomi and was waiting for Matte. I was not in any choke and could have easily turned more on my stomach but didn't see a need to. When I apply my Kesa Gatame,Yoko Shiho or Kami Shiho my main objective is to clearly pin the shoulder/back on the Tatami. The Judo definition for Osaekomi?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6otgW3EPfyA

    Why on earth did you just lay there doing SFA? To me that is a much greater problem than anything else. I thought you where dead?

    Mike


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    Dutch Budo

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    Join date : 2013-01-03
    Age : 31
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by Dutch Budo on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:45 am

    Why didnt you turn to your stomach, even if you didnt think it was osaekomi surely you felt in danger!


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    tafftaz

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    Age : 51
    Location : Wales, UK

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by tafftaz on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:58 am

    International shiai is a whole world away from a local comp. It is a LOT faster and tougher and laying on your side doing nothing will get you beat, badly. Juji gatame from the position tori was in is a real possibility, plus a few rear chokes/strangles, and that is without any osaekomi being called.
    Movement is paramount,even if osaekomi has not been called, as you were in a truly disadvantaged position.


    Jonesy

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    Join date : 2013-01-02

    Re: Is this Osaekomi (Clarification Please)

    Post by Jonesy on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:02 am

    What grade was you opponent and what are you? Which international comps are you preparing for?

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