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    Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

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    jkw

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    Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by jkw on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:27 am

    I was wondering if Brazilian jiu-jitsu had the same self-identification dilemma's sometimes found in judo (sport, martial art, education system etc...)? Do BJJ'ers self-identify what they do as a sport?
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    seatea

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by seatea on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:40 am

    Yes. The sport vs. martial art 'debate' goes on endlessly in BJJ.

    jkw

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by jkw on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:48 am

    seatea wrote:Yes. The sport vs. martial art 'debate' goes on endlessly in BJJ.

    Great - thanks! Don't want to relitigate it here, but interesting to know.

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by hedgehogey on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:02 am

    Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Yes.

    Emanuele2

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by Emanuele2 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:10 pm

    Once it has been asked to Kyra Gracie. She answered for her it's just a sport.
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by Dutch Budo on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:29 am

    If you ask Rener or Ryron Gracie youll get an opposite answer I bet.


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    Hanon

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by Hanon on Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:30 am

    I don't know the answer, don't care, I just enjoy BJJ and the people who practice it. Only hear this sort of conversation with regard to judo. BJJ'ers are too busy learning to kick judokas ass in ne waza to bother with the politic of it. One of the biggest attractions for me to BJJ is the people and the absence of politics. BJJ'ers appear to debate with there actions on a mat, I love it...Only regret not finding it many years ago when I could have given them a decent fight.

    Mike


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    nomoremondays

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by nomoremondays on Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:20 am

    jkw wrote:I was wondering if Brazilian jiu-jitsu had the same self-identification dilemma's sometimes found in judo (sport, martial art, education system etc...)? Do BJJ'ers self-identify what they do as a sport?

    Judo has a self-identification dilemma ??
    confused
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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by genetic judoka on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:40 am

    does it matter?

    judo doesn't have an identity problem. judo is judo. however some judoka seem to have an identity problem as to whether they're athletes or martial artists. I wouldn't imagine BJJ being any different.

    is martial sport an option?


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    Stacey

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by Stacey on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:53 am

    Hanon wrote:I don't know the answer, don't care, I just enjoy BJJ and the people who practice it. Only hear this sort of conversation with regard to judo. BJJ'ers are too busy learning to kick judokas ass in ne waza to bother with the politic of it. One of the biggest attractions for me to BJJ is the people and the absence of politics. BJJ'ers appear to debate with there actions on a mat, I love it...Only regret not finding it many years ago when I could have given them a decent fight.

    Mike

    Meh, I think bjj is probably a lot like judo. In your home dojo, there's not much in terms of politics, but the higher you go, the longer you stay, and the more outside the dojo you get, the more political stuff becomes. I mean, I can't imagine that a game of Monopoly conducted by the entire Gracie family resolves any differently than a game of monopoly among IJF refs or something - there isn't a whole heck of a lot of harmony in either group.

    To me, it's nice to do a bit of BJJ now and again so that I'm not one of the more senior people on the mats. It also reminds me of my early years in judo since I'm usually the only female.

    Sport/martial art - does it matter? At the end of the day, my gi is just as sweaty, my bag just as stinky, and I'm just as sore.
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    seatea

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by seatea on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:03 pm

    Hanon wrote:I don't know the answer, don't care, I just enjoy BJJ and the people who practice it. Only hear this sort of conversation with regard to judo. BJJ'ers are too busy learning to kick judokas ass in ne waza to bother with the politic of it. One of the biggest attractions for me to BJJ is the people and the absence of politics. BJJ'ers appear to debate with there actions on a mat, I love it...Only regret not finding it many years ago when I could have given them a decent fight.

    Mike

    I think you have a very rose tinted view of BJJ. The arguments about sport vs. martial art are very common, online and off. My own coach is prone to ranting on this subject.

    Also, there are politics, usually to do with associations and changing schools.

    jkw

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by jkw on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:49 pm

    nomoremondays wrote:
    jkw wrote:I was wondering if Brazilian jiu-jitsu had the same self-identification dilemma's sometimes found in judo (sport, martial art, education system etc...)? Do BJJ'ers self-identify what they do as a sport?

    Judo has a self-identification dilemma ??
    confused

    Perhaps not the best choice of words, but there are certainly a number of different and competing ideas about what judo is at quite a fundamental level. That is what I'm referring to. I wondered if BJJ had the same and it appears it does.

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by Mr_Michael_or_Mike on Fri May 23, 2014 11:47 am

    Aren't BJJ schools in the same area rivals? I've seen many Judo players visit other schools, but it's rare in BJJ, unless the schools are affiliated in some way.

    DougNZ

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by DougNZ on Fri May 23, 2014 1:35 pm

    Mr_Michael_or_Mike wrote:Aren't BJJ schools in the same area rivals? I've seen many Judo players visit other schools, but it's rare in BJJ, unless the schools are affiliated in some way.

    Yes, BJJ schools are very clannish. There is great rivalry between Gracie and Machado, for example.
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    Robert Sterling

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by Robert Sterling on Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:09 am

    Yes, BJJ is a martial art, like Judo


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    Y-Chromosome

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by Y-Chromosome on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:17 am

    Robert Sterling wrote:Yes, BJJ is a martial art, like Judo

    Except that Judo is not a Martial Art it is a Martial Way.
    (Bu-Do vs Bu-Jutsu)

    Post Meiji era and in particular with regards to Kano, the distinction is significant.

    I wouldn't think the distinction is as important to BJJ as it is to Judo. BJJ is only indirectly derived from Japanese Jujutsu via Judo as represented in the person of Maeda. If Maeda cared so little for the distinction, that he didn't even bother to call his teachings Ju-DO vs Ju-JUTSU (usually transcribed as JITSU anyway)... I wouldn't think he'd have wasted much breath on the nuances differentiating the two.

    The sport vs MA or indeed MW is a touchy subject in both cases. Judo more-or-less has to sometimes refer to itself as a sport in order to maintain access to funding and programs that are earmarked for sports by governments at all levels and in multiple countries. Participation in the Olympic program in particular requires an identification as a "sport" even though some purists will bristle at such a description.

    While it's not yet a part of the Olympic program, BJJ proponents will probably need to refer to what they do as a "sport" as well for purposes of expediency or perceived legitimacy.

    A lot of this is contextual and also tailored to the audience. If you're applying for a grant from the Ministry of Sport and Recreation, your spin will be a bit different than if you're trying to convince the local Infantry Reserve battalion to hire you to teach "unarmed combat" classes or writing a dissertation to be read by anal-retentive, martial arts scholars.
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    Robert Sterling

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    Re: Is Brazilian jiu-jitsu a sport or martial art?

    Post by Robert Sterling on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:37 am

    Y-Chromosome wrote:
    Robert Sterling wrote:Yes, BJJ is a martial art, like Judo

    Except that Judo is not a Martial Art it is a Martial Way.
    (Bu-Do vs Bu-Jutsu)

    Post Meiji era and in particular with regards to Kano, the distinction is significant.

    I wouldn't think the distinction is as important to BJJ as it is to Judo.  BJJ is only indirectly derived from Japanese Jujutsu via Judo as represented in the person of Maeda.  If Maeda cared so little for the distinction, that he didn't even bother to call his teachings Ju-DO vs Ju-JUTSU (usually transcribed as JITSU anyway)... I wouldn't think he'd have wasted much breath on the nuances differentiating the two.

    The sport vs MA or indeed MW is a touchy subject in both cases.  Judo more-or-less has to sometimes refer to itself as a sport in order to maintain access to funding and programs that are earmarked for sports by governments at all levels and in multiple countries. Participation in the Olympic program in particular requires an identification as a "sport" even though some purists will bristle at such a description.

    While it's not yet a part of the Olympic program, BJJ proponents will probably need to refer to what they do as a "sport" as well for purposes of expediency or perceived legitimacy.

    A lot of this is contextual and also tailored to the audience.  If you're applying for a grant from the Ministry of Sport and Recreation, your spin will be a bit different than if you're trying to convince the local Infantry Reserve battalion to hire you to teach "unarmed combat" classes or writing a dissertation to be read by anal-retentive, martial arts scholars.
    thumbs


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