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    Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

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    sydvicious

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    Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by sydvicious on Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:49 pm

    I'm having a bit an 'inner struggle' at the moment, as I'm finding it difficult to concentrate on what is more important.
    When I started Judo last year, I had one goal in mind and that was to have a green belt by the end of this year. Soon after, I realised just how silly this goal was and that it would be ridiculous to hang on to that mindset. I have changed my view and decided not to worry about belts and that I should just enjoy myself and concentrate on my techniques.
    However, lately I have started wondering about the grading again. Sooner or later, you would have to go through grading (I'm doing my 5th Kyu this week) and, although I'm ready for it, I don't think it changes anything. I still get pasted in randori Embarassed

    I'm interested to hear the thoughts of people with more experience than me and also what it was like for you when you were a noob, like me.

    Thanks


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    Hanon

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Hanon on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:20 pm

    I bought a black obi with my first gi aged 8. I hung it on my bedroom wall and looked at it every day. Sometimes after a heavy lesson looking at the obi on the wall was all that kept me going. Like all kids I had times when I didn't want to go to lessons. Seeing that obi gave me the incentive to push past that feeling.

    I don't think there is anything wrong in having goals in life. Be prepared for set backs and knocks but even those build your character. As for reality you will generally be awarded the rank you are worth by your examiner so much of what we want and think doesn't, in reality, count for much.
    The ranks are there for a purpose and there is nothing wrong with advancing through them. It goes without saying that any person can wear any rank but we know its not the rank but what we can do that counts.

    Hope this helps,

    Mike


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    JudoStu

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by JudoStu on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:20 am

    sydvicious wrote:I'm having a bit an 'inner struggle' at the moment, as I'm finding it difficult to concentrate on what is more important.
    When I started Judo last year, I had one goal in mind and that was to have a green belt by the end of this year. Soon after, I realised just how silly this goal was and that it would be ridiculous to hang on to that mindset. I have changed my view and decided not to worry about belts and that I should just enjoy myself and concentrate on my techniques.
    However, lately I have started wondering about the grading again. Sooner or later, you would have to go through grading (I'm doing my 5th Kyu this week) and, although I'm ready for it, I don't think it changes anything. I still get pasted in randori Embarassed

    I'm interested to hear the thoughts of people with more experience than me and also what it was like for you when you were a noob, like me.

    Thanks

    I’m sure your instructor will grade you when you’re ready, so if you get your yellow belt soon then you earned it.
    As for getting green by the end of the year, I think that’s a big ask but if in trying to achieve your goal it means you train harder and more often then it’s not a bad thing. Just don’t be too disappointed if you don’t get it. Anyway it’s better to be a really good yellow than a poor green



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    sydvicious

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by sydvicious on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:15 am

    JudoStu wrote:
    sydvicious wrote:I'm having a bit an 'inner struggle' at the moment, as I'm finding it difficult to concentrate on what is more important.
    When I started Judo last year, I had one goal in mind and that was to have a green belt by the end of this year. Soon after, I realised just how silly this goal was and that it would be ridiculous to hang on to that mindset. I have changed my view and decided not to worry about belts and that I should just enjoy myself and concentrate on my techniques.
    However, lately I have started wondering about the grading again. Sooner or later, you would have to go through grading (I'm doing my 5th Kyu this week) and, although I'm ready for it, I don't think it changes anything. I still get pasted in randori Embarassed

    I'm interested to hear the thoughts of people with more experience than me and also what it was like for you when you were a noob, like me.

    Thanks

    I’m sure your instructor will grade you when you’re ready, so if you get your yellow belt soon then you earned it.
    As for getting green by the end of the year, I think that’s a big ask but if in trying to achieve your goal it means you train harder and more often then it’s not a bad thing. Just don’t be too disappointed if you don’t get it. Anyway it’s better to be a really good yellow than a poor green


    I agree completely. The goal of having a green by the end of this year was very optimistic/naive on my part.


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    Hanon

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Hanon on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:37 am

    sydvicious wrote:
    JudoStu wrote:
    sydvicious wrote:I'm having a bit an 'inner struggle' at the moment, as I'm finding it difficult to concentrate on what is more important.
    When I started Judo last year, I had one goal in mind and that was to have a green belt by the end of this year. Soon after, I realised just how silly this goal was and that it would be ridiculous to hang on to that mindset. I have changed my view and decided not to worry about belts and that I should just enjoy myself and concentrate on my techniques.
    However, lately I have started wondering about the grading again. Sooner or later, you would have to go through grading (I'm doing my 5th Kyu this week) and, although I'm ready for it, I don't think it changes anything. I still get pasted in randori Embarassed

    I'm interested to hear the thoughts of people with more experience than me and also what it was like for you when you were a noob, like me.

    Thanks

    I’m sure your instructor will grade you when you’re ready, so if you get your yellow belt soon then you earned it.
    As for getting green by the end of the year, I think that’s a big ask but if in trying to achieve your goal it means you train harder and more often then it’s not a bad thing. Just don’t be too disappointed if you don’t get it. Anyway it’s better to be a really good yellow than a poor green


    I agree completely. The goal of having a green by the end of this year was very optimistic/naive on my part.

    My you cave in easily Sad If you have the eye of the tiger set yourself a goal and darn well go for it, train for it, believe in yourself and learn the judo needed to take such an exam. Fight as many blue belts as you can and then beat the brown ranks etc. Get some grit in your manner. At least go down with a fight!!!

    Mike

    Yellow, orange and green is not impossible in a year IF you train. HAJIME.


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    WARNING. I write as a pupil of judo. what I write should be researched by the reader and not accepted as in any way factual or correct.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" S Hawking.
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    sydvicious

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by sydvicious on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:50 am

    Hanon wrote:
    sydvicious wrote:
    JudoStu wrote:
    sydvicious wrote:I'm having a bit an 'inner struggle' at the moment, as I'm finding it difficult to concentrate on what is more important.
    When I started Judo last year, I had one goal in mind and that was to have a green belt by the end of this year. Soon after, I realised just how silly this goal was and that it would be ridiculous to hang on to that mindset. I have changed my view and decided not to worry about belts and that I should just enjoy myself and concentrate on my techniques.
    However, lately I have started wondering about the grading again. Sooner or later, you would have to go through grading (I'm doing my 5th Kyu this week) and, although I'm ready for it, I don't think it changes anything. I still get pasted in randori Embarassed

    I'm interested to hear the thoughts of people with more experience than me and also what it was like for you when you were a noob, like me.

    Thanks

    I’m sure your instructor will grade you when you’re ready, so if you get your yellow belt soon then you earned it.
    As for getting green by the end of the year, I think that’s a big ask but if in trying to achieve your goal it means you train harder and more often then it’s not a bad thing. Just don’t be too disappointed if you don’t get it. Anyway it’s better to be a really good yellow than a poor green


    I agree completely. The goal of having a green by the end of this year was very optimistic/naive on my part.

    My you cave in easily Sad If you have the eye of the tiger set yourself a goal and darn well go for it, train for it, believe in yourself and learn the judo needed to take such an exam. Fight as many blue belts as you can and then beat the brown ranks etc. Get some grit in your manner. At least go down with a fight!!!

    Mike

    Yellow, orange and green is not impossible in a year IF you train. HAJIME.

    lol!

    Believe me, I'm not affraid of hard work, but I can only train twice a week. That is a total of 3 hours/week. If I could, I would gladly do 10x that!


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    Stacey

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Stacey on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:51 am

    I think you have the right mindset now. Green will come when green comes, just as black will come when black comes.

    Instead, concentrating on having fun and learning seems to me to be the right mode of thinking. There's nothing you can really do to speed things up (other than moving someplace where there's a club that meets more frequently).

    As for getting pasted in ronduri - get used to it. As you advance, the more advanced will treat you accordingly, usually playing you one notch above where they think you are. Now, as you advance, the more there're going to be people below you who you'll have to bring along by playing them at just a notch above where they are. THat's a difficult thing to learn. When you get a new belt, it'll be strange because suddenly, you'll get plastered all over again, and come away feeling like you shouldn't even be allowed to wear a white belt. Similarly, turn up the volume, make a great move, and shock the crap out of some nidan, and you're going to feel that skill level of your partner amp up, and you'll be on your back looking up at the ceiling. It's part of the growth process. Right now, you're probably cognizant at least occasionally of when somebody "lets" you get a throw. Sometimes, you may think you're actually getting a throw against some black belt or brown belt. In a sense, it's when you don't think you're being given a throw that you think you're doing well in randori when you're a noob. That's not the case.

    You're doing well in randori when you're finding yourself on your back at unexpected times when playing against higher ranks. It's simple; remember your first randori, and their attempts to get you to throw? Yeah, they didn't throw you around too badly then. Now, they respect you enough to throw you, and push you. And, anyway, you'll get there.

    Now, go do a shiai. Find other people your age and rank. How you do there will tell you how you're doing against others who are in a similar situation to you.

    But, I think you're right in going for the experience, and not the rank. Rank will come - invariably you do get promoted, generally when you feel you least deserve it, but it will happen. It'd be great to get green belt in a year, but will you have the skill set of a green belt within a year? If yes, hopefully you'll be a green belt in a year. If no, keep working to build your skill set. Once you've got the skills, you've got the skills. The rest of life is refinement until you can pull them on anybody, not just people significantly below your rank.

    Anyway, that's mho. I do remember being a yellow belt and walking all over people. I remember getting green and suddenly I was on my back a lot more. I remember having a green belt that was nice and worn and not getting gassed in randori. Then I got brown and suddenly a lot more people in class were playing me a lot harder, and I was getting gassed. It's a bit of a mind game until you realize that the rank around your waist is a signal to the more advanced to help you advance even more by playing you harder.

    DougNZ

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by DougNZ on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:03 am

    sydvicious wrote:Believe me, I'm not affraid of hard work, but I can only train twice a week. That is a total of 3 hours/week. If I could, I would gladly do 10x that!

    Do you not train at home?
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    sydvicious

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by sydvicious on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:25 am

    Thanks for all the comments everyone.

    Doug, I don't train at home, as I don't have an uke at home.


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    Jonesy

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Jonesy on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:22 am

    sydvicious wrote:Thanks for all the comments everyone.

    Doug, I don't train at home, as I don't have an uke at home.
    So the answer is tandoku renshu in the general sense.....

    Hanon

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Hanon on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:25 am

    sydvicious wrote:
    Hanon wrote:
    sydvicious wrote:
    JudoStu wrote:
    sydvicious wrote:I'm having a bit an 'inner struggle' at the moment, as I'm finding it difficult to concentrate on what is more important.
    When I started Judo last year, I had one goal in mind and that was to have a green belt by the end of this year. Soon after, I realised just how silly this goal was and that it would be ridiculous to hang on to that mindset. I have changed my view and decided not to worry about belts and that I should just enjoy myself and concentrate on my techniques.
    However, lately I have started wondering about the grading again. Sooner or later, you would have to go through grading (I'm doing my 5th Kyu this week) and, although I'm ready for it, I don't think it changes anything. I still get pasted in randori Embarassed

    I'm interested to hear the thoughts of people with more experience than me and also what it was like for you when you were a noob, like me.

    Thanks

    I’m sure your instructor will grade you when you’re ready, so if you get your yellow belt soon then you earned it.
    As for getting green by the end of the year, I think that’s a big ask but if in trying to achieve your goal it means you train harder and more often then it’s not a bad thing. Just don’t be too disappointed if you don’t get it. Anyway it’s better to be a really good yellow than a poor green


    I agree completely. The goal of having a green by the end of this year was very optimistic/naive on my part.

    My you cave in easily Sad If you have the eye of the tiger set yourself a goal and darn well go for it, train for it, believe in yourself and learn the judo needed to take such an exam. Fight as many blue belts as you can and then beat the brown ranks etc. Get some grit in your manner. At least go down with a fight!!!

    Mike

    Yellow, orange and green is not impossible in a year IF you train. HAJIME.

    lol!

    Believe me, I'm not affraid of hard work, but I can only train twice a week. That is a total of 3 hours/week. If I could, I would gladly do 10x that!

    Its not always the time you have but the quality and what you do with that time. Do you have a tree at home? Tie a bike inner tuber around a tree and uchikomi, go for runs, go swimming, 'think' judo and go for that green obi. Buy it now and put it on your wall at home. In lessons train double that of any other judoka on the tatami.

    I understand you are not afraid of work so what's your problem? Hmmmmmmm....I shall be watching you. Cool

    P.M.A

    Mike

    One more excuse and its hansoku make! affraid


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    DougNZ

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by DougNZ on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:35 pm

    Jonesy wrote:
    sydvicious wrote:Thanks for all the comments everyone.

    Doug, I don't train at home, as I don't have an uke at home.
    So the answer is tandoku renshu in the general sense.....

    I find practicing throw movements on my own really helps with my mental game as well as my physical movement. It also tends to give me wee ideas that I cannot wait to try on an uke.

    There you go; three reasons to practice at home!
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    afulldeck

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by afulldeck on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:47 pm

    Stacey wrote: It's a bit of a mind game until you realize that the rank around your waist is a signal to the more advanced to help you advance even more by playing you harder.

    That's it, Stacey, your on to something. Instead of colour belts, we should have targets sewn to the back of our gis. We can starting with a small target moving up to larger targets. The longer you stay doing judo the bigger your target....


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    sydvicious

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by sydvicious on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:20 pm

    To be honest, I never even thought about practising on my own, like some of you suggested. I always thought that you need to have a partner. I do a lot of walking and cycling (hate running), but I would really like to do more Judo training, so I've taken the suggestions on board!


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    Stacey

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Stacey on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:31 am

    afulldeck wrote:
    Stacey wrote: It's a bit of a mind game until you realize that the rank around your waist is a signal to the more advanced to help you advance even more by playing you harder.

    That's it, Stacey, your on to something. Instead of colour belts, we should have targets sewn to the back of our gis. We can starting with a small target moving up to larger targets. The longer you stay doing judo the bigger your target....

    Come on, it's common to play mudanshaka at a level that's just a notch above where they are. It has nothing to do with being a target, but everything to do with developing the judoka and his/her technique. You give more to a white belt than you do an ikkyu, whether the person's in your club or competing against you in shiai. We saw a great example of that at the Olympics with the Saudi heavyweight and her Puerto Rican opponent, Mujica (sp?). The Puerto Rican could have absolutely buried but didn't, instead respecting the woman and her rank and playing her just a notch above. If anybody ever came to the Olympics with a potential target on her back, the young Saudi did, but it's judo, she was played and beaten in a way beneficial to the traditions of judo, judo learning, and the learning of the Saudi woman.

    And, as you well know, when you're ikkyu getting ready for shodan, people really step up their game with you during randori.

    When you randori with a white belt, you allow the white belt to throw you with crap throws you won't let a brown belt get on you. Similarly, your attacks on a white belt are much slower, much simpler than when you go against somebody your own rank/age/weight. It's not a matter of the lower rank being a target, it's a matter of developing their judo as well as your own. You don't throw a white belt with a technique you know they haven't seen/experienced before. There're varieties on this as your partner approaches your level, and you expect the same from a partner who out ranks you/is better than you. A 16 year old elite athlete doesn't bury a 45 year old nidan even if s/he could.

    Target? Give me a break.
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    JudoTerrier

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by JudoTerrier on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:03 am

    [quote="Stacey"][quote="afulldeck"]
    Stacey wrote:

    Come on, it's common to play mudanshaka at a level that's just a notch above where they are. It has nothing to do with being a target, but everything to do with developing the judoka and his/her technique. You give more to a white belt than you do an ikkyu, whether the person's in your club or competing against you in shiai. We saw a great example of that at the Olympics with the Saudi heavyweight and her Puerto Rican opponent, Mujica (sp?). The Puerto Rican could have absolutely buried but didn't, instead respecting the woman and her rank and playing her just a notch above. If anybody ever came to the Olympics with a potential target on her back, the young Saudi did, but it's judo, she was played and beaten in a way beneficial to the traditions of judo, judo learning, and the learning of the Saudi woman.


    That match was really a credit to both players--the Saudi girl for having the guts to go out there, and the Puerto Rican for showing great sportsmanship and grace.

    As for playing lower belts closer to their level--that's why if you work with the higher belts in the dojo a lot you frequently don't feel like you're making any progress at all--until you suddenly get a chance to work with someone your own rank and size. As you improve, they just ramp it up a bit. I frequently roll with one particular nidan at our club--I've actually learned most of my matwork from him. I can almost NEVER get anything on him. But it takes him longer to pin me than it used to, and occasionally I get out, (and let me tell you he doesn't give me a mm anymore!) and he has to get creative to get an arm bar. I consider that progress. You don't squish a white belt like that--you give them some room to wriggle out so they can figure out HOW!

    Erika
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    Stacey

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Stacey on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:08 am

    JudoTerrier wrote:

    That match was really a credit to both players--the Saudi girl for having the guts to go out there, and the Puerto Rican for showing great sportsmanship and grace.

    As for playing lower belts closer to their level--that's why if you work with the higher belts in the dojo a lot you frequently don't feel like you're making any progress at all--until you suddenly get a chance to work with someone your own rank and size. As you improve, they just ramp it up a bit. I frequently roll with one particular nidan at our club--I've actually learned most of my matwork from him. I can almost NEVER get anything on him. But it takes him longer to pin me than it used to, and occasionally I get out, (and let me tell you he doesn't give me a mm anymore!) and he has to get creative to get an arm bar. I consider that progress. You don't squish a white belt like that--you give them some room to wriggle out so they can figure out HOW!

    Erika

    Oh, no doubt the Saudi girl showed great courage by stepping onto the tatami. Can you think of any other sport at the Olympics where such a novice wouldn't have been slammed (or the equivalent)? That's what makes judo so cool, imho, or at least one of the things.

    And yes, you see what I mean and have shaped your workout to get the most out of it. Conversely, the nidan now has another partner in randori who actually presses him. You don't get partners who actually challenge you unless you develop them, and let them progress from figuring out how to wiggle out to working escapes effectively on you when trying to prevent them.
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:59 am

    sydvicious wrote:To be honest, I never even thought about practising on my own, like some of you suggested. I always thought that you need to have a partner. I do a lot of walking and cycling (hate running), but I would really like to do more Judo training, so I've taken the suggestions on board!

    General fitness training you can do, of course, and that is part of what Hanon was suggesting.

    As for doing tandoku renshu (solo/shadow training), how well that will work for you will depend on how well you can self correct. At your level, that may not be very much or very well. So it's a trade off...my suggestion is that you ask your coach/sensei for ideas on how to improve outside of class. He/she will know what you are capable of doing and can show you the solo drills/exercises appropriate.

    I think, and in my personal experience, the most important thing to progress steadily is as Hanon suggested...to paraphrase, you need to be "into Judo". That is a thing I see lacking in many students today, even those who claim to be serious.

    I earned the equivalent of a green belt (sankyu) in a little over a year starting at age 18. But I trained my ass off, read all I could about Judo, studied the promotion requirements and memorized them, competed, and trained a minimum of 3 days a week (at Judo...not counting running, soccer, lifting weights).

    So regardless of what your rank might be at the end of this year, train hard and "get into" Judo and you will succeed.

    Ben
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:02 am

    sydvicious wrote:I'm having a bit an 'inner struggle' at the moment, as I'm finding it difficult to concentrate on what is more important.
    When I started Judo last year, I had one goal in mind and that was to have a green belt by the end of this year. Soon after, I realised just how silly this goal was and that it would be ridiculous to hang on to that mindset. I have changed my view and decided not to worry about belts and that I should just enjoy myself and concentrate on my techniques.
    However, lately I have started wondering about the grading again. Sooner or later, you would have to go through grading (I'm doing my 5th Kyu this week) and, although I'm ready for it, I don't think it changes anything. I still get pasted in randori Embarassed

    I'm interested to hear the thoughts of people with more experience than me and also what it was like for you when you were a noob, like me.

    Thanks

    You never stop getting pasted in randori unless you are judoratt. There is always someone better unless you hide in a little pond with a lot of smaller fish. So just erase that issue from your mind.

    Good instructors will just keep on pushing you. You make progress, then they will step out a bit ahead of you. I do that all the time to my students. Once they hit ikkyu or especially shodan, though, the gloves are off. Now, it's more like the are nice to me, LOL!
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    NittyRanks

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by NittyRanks on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:38 am

    See I don't get this? I was an orange belt for a long time. I switched schools got a green belt and have been at it a year and half since. I also come to class and compete and I am an older guy. I understand waiting around and working towards the new rank but green belt in a year would never happen at my dojo. I have a high ranking bb in another Martial art so I know how this stuff goes.
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    Neil G

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Neil G on Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:11 am

    Kyu awarding varies a lot. In our dojo there are set wait periods, so minimum time to green would be probably end of your 3rd season.
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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by genetic judoka on Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:21 am

    I got my green belt in 6 months. I did it by training my ass off 5-6 days per week, being the first to arrive at the dojo and the last to leave, and giving 110% the whole time. I skipped yellow, and stayed an orange belt for roughly a month. I got promoted the class after my first tournament, where every match I was in ended by ippon (either mine or theirs). of course the NGB here doesn't give too much weight to time requirements for kyu grades, and I have a sensei who believes that if a person performs like a ____ belt, they should wear that belt regardless of other factors (as opposed to the clubs where the instructors take pride in their yellow belts being able to throw other clubs' brown belts in randori or shiai). I stayed a green belt for a long time though. the thing is, I never cared about rank. I just wanted to do as much judo as I could, as often as I could. it wasn't until I was an Ikkyu that I started getting anxious about promotion.


    _________________
    Warning: I am very opinionated, and very willing to share that opinion. However I am very much aware that I am here as a student, not a teacher.

    Raj Venugopal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2013-01-21

    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

    Post by Raj Venugopal on Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:11 am

    Funny thing about belts.
    When you don't have it, it means everything.
    When you have it, it means nothing.
    A few months after I was graded shodan in shotokan style karate I worried because sensei expected me to start knowing what I was doing. Razz

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    Re: Getting the balance between grade progression and improving your Judo

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