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    A poll for the new JF members.

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    Should we use the +/- and reputation function??

    [ 18 ]
    39% [39%] 
    [ 6 ]
    13% [13%] 
    [ 22 ]
    48% [48%] 

    Total Votes: 46
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    ThePieman

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    A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by ThePieman on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:26 am

    This is a small and basic poll to discern whether or not to use the +/- and reputation functions of the forum.

    The choices are:

    Use the +/- function and reputation. This means individual posts can be either up or down voted resulting in an overall "reputation" attached to your profile.

    Use only the +/- function. This means individual post may be up or down voted, this will not result in an overall reputation.

    Use neither the +/- nor reputation. This means both functions will be disabled.
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    genetic judoka

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by genetic judoka on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:12 am

    I kinda like it. that way if someone consistently posts rubbish but doesn't do so in a way that deserves a ban, and we recognize that with negative votes; it will be easier for new members to see that they should take that person's posts with a grain of salt.
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Dutch Budo on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:30 am

    Plus some people (not all) will think twice about posting their rubbish.


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    Hanon

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Hanon on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:50 am

    Its a new forum. Fresh start. Clean page blah blah. WHY go and even think about creating identical systems that caused so many problems on the very forum this one is going to replace?

    Members will not give a negative nor a positive for the content of a post regardless of its value they will do what they always did and pass marks for the person who wrote the post irrespective of value. This caused silly remarks and divide's where non needed to exist.

    WHY would we need to operate such a system? The honest thing to do would be thank the poster who wrote the post or write a rebuttal giving reasons why one doesn't agree. Its called adult, mature, behaviour.

    The largest most active post on the old JF was one regarding 5 stars? Absurd considering that judo sections, vis, history, kata, techniques never saw such a post that size. What are the prioritise here, judo or how we are going to start pulling each other about yet again in a cyber cowardly manner.

    Each post should also must and only can be assessed and judged on its content. If a reader has an issue write a reply asking for clarification etc I hope we are not going down the silly road of forum bishops etc all over again?

    Next will be forum rank! A professional serious site dedicated to judo and research doesn't need such trappings, such things cause divide and not build relationships, to be blunt they become personal attack weapons.

    Mike

    Hanon

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Hanon on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:00 am

    Dutch Budo wrote:Plus some people (not all) will think twice about posting their rubbish.

    Its all relative. If Daigo sensei was a member here all of our posts would be seen as rubbish... Daigo sensei has more tatami and judo travel time than every member here added together. Does this mean we mortals cant have a point of view that deserves debate?

    When a beginner writes a post here asking a basic question why should that poster receive a negative mark thus giving him a label as a poor poster.

    If a poster writes that kime no kata has zero value for judoka I would not give a negative mark I would reply asking how said poster arrives at such an opinion and debate with the poster.

    Who exactly has this superior knowledge to write a persons post is either of value or non at all? Every post written here will have a section of readers who agree and disagree, should reputation or stars have anything to do with that? Nope end of the day such things end up personal. That's not good, not at all.

    History is only of value if we learn from it.

    Mike
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    ThePieman

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by ThePieman on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:42 am

    genetic judoka wrote:I kinda like it. that way if someone consistently posts rubbish but doesn't do so in a way that deserves a ban, and we recognize that with negative votes; it will be easier for new members to see that they should take that person's posts with a grain of salt.

    I agree, not sure what would warrant a ban though?

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Guest on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:55 am

    ThePieman wrote:
    genetic judoka wrote:I kinda like it. that way if someone consistently posts rubbish but doesn't do so in a way that deserves a ban, and we recognize that with negative votes; it will be easier for new members to see that they should take that person's posts with a grain of salt.

    I agree, not sure what would warrant a ban though?

    Inapropriate content (violent, sexual etc), threatening behaviour, illegal behaviour, disagreeing with the admin Laughing .

    I guess if somebodies really poisoning the forum with their constant trolling that might warrant it too if all the folk running the board agree.


    Last edited by Dew on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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    ThePieman

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by ThePieman on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:14 am

    OK then. silent

    Come on Dew, have you been to busy to add an avatar? tongue

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    Guest

    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Guest on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:28 am

    ThePieman wrote:OK then. silent

    Come on Dew, have you been to busy to add an avatar? tongue

    Not for want of trying I can tell you Very Happy Candidates so far have included a Dictator, a Ronin and a parade of walking kitchen utensils from the manga movie "paprika" - none of which seem quite right. I should probably get some work done now ..... ahem...


    Last edited by Dew on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Dutch Budo on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:35 am

    Hanon wrote:
    Dutch Budo wrote:Plus some people (not all) will think twice about posting their rubbish.

    Its all relative. If Daigo sensei was a member here all of our posts would be seen as rubbish... Daigo sensei has more tatami and judo travel time than every member here added together. Does this mean we mortals cant have a point of view that deserves debate?

    When a beginner writes a post here asking a basic question why should that poster receive a negative mark thus giving him a label as a poor poster.

    If a poster writes that kime no kata has zero value for judoka I would not give a negative mark I would reply asking how said poster arrives at such an opinion and debate with the poster.

    Who exactly has this superior knowledge to write a persons post is either of value or non at all? Every post written here will have a section of readers who agree and disagree, should reputation or stars have anything to do with that? Nope end of the day such things end up personal. That's not good, not at all.

    History is only of value if we learn from it.

    Mike

    The reputation points are not given as who does or doesnt agree with a post. Its about the content. Is it valuable, is it appropiate or is it simply just offensive or meant as a trolling action? A poster who has a good reputation, is some1 who posts valuable information often. A poster with a bad reputation is someone who is on the forum just to piss people off and doesnt contribute to the forum positively.

    Its a good system as it is not dependent on one person making judgement calls on who is either positively or negatively contributing to the forum, but its the collective.

    Im sure you will recieve a lot of positive reps because you are known to write a lot of positive information with an interesting view of things. Generally youre not out to annoy or offend other people. So you shouldnt worry.

    Its not the same as the old version with the stars, because if you anyone gives you anything else that 5 stars at some point in time, you will never go back to the five stars again. The reputation points are cumulative, so you are able to redeem yourself so to say, by contributing positively to the board.

    Its a very good system, Ive seen it on multiple places.


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    Jimgo

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Jimgo on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:53 pm

    I like to view feedback both positive and negative. As Dutch Judo implied, it may prevent overbearing or dogmatic types from dominating discussions. Certainly that is my hope.
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    Judo Dad

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Judo Dad on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:23 pm

    It is difficult sometimes to guage how your posts will be recieved, however, the + or - cannot give insight into how your post will be recieved, only how it was recieved. I agree with Hannon that this is a brand new Forum and does not have to emulate the old JF. (Hannon puts it more diplomatically than I would have).


    Last edited by Judo Dad on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)


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    Guest

    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Guest on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:45 pm

    Well we'll leave this up for a couple of days until the debate has run its course and the final decision will be made according to the winning vote.

    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Hanon on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:58 pm

    Jimgo wrote: "it may prevent overbearing or dogmatic types from dominating discussions."

    Hello, nice to chat with you again. Hope you and yours are well?

    To the point. My question to you is simply....How? The control over content on a forum is the duty of the moderator. Hidden agendas play a part in life. Forum posts are not an exception to the rule. We saw time after time on the old JF posters getting politically wound up in the misc' section to only then post in other threads polluting those threads with vengeance type posts for arguments that took place between politically different minded posters. There was a phase some 3 or 4 years ago where this behaviour became the result of some members there being banned but not until damage had been done to the judo integrity of the JF.

    With respect I don't think it friendly nor helpful to start passing positives nor negatives for a poster. How can such a system build a community? It will soon be back to forum bishops and forum trolls when the fact of the matter is every post is of value, or not, to a given individual.

    Kindest regards to you both.

    Mike
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    Jimgo

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Jimgo on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:34 am

    Thanks for the kind wishes Mike and I hope your health has improved.

    I certainly see your point of view and am respectful of your optimistic approach to creating a better forum. Unfortunately I feel that the sort of disagreements, judgements and altercations you fear will always be a part of any internet forum discourse. Although perhaps we "old-timers" have all learned a little from past mistakes. The main message will always be the "message" itself, ie. the response and comments made, the sort of feedback suggested in this poll is really fairly benign in the total scheme of things.

    The only way to promote goodwill and mutual respect - all the virtues that good Judoka aspire to - is in fact to be respectful in posts and comments. The absence of a mechanism for feedback is not going to effect that at all in my opinion.

    I don't think that the old feedback system in the JF was significantly responsible for the acrimony that sometimes developed. Indeed it possibly acted as a "relief-valve" for some who might have made far more agressive and impolitic responses had their only other option be to "message."

    Nevertheless I am happy to await the outcome of the current poll and abide by whatever decision is reached by the majority of members.

    Aside from all this, I am very heartened to see you posting on the internet again and wish you all the very best.
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    Judo Dad

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    Great to see another Aussie on the forum

    Post by Judo Dad on Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:26 pm

    G'day Jingo

    Great to see another Aussie on the forum and BTW great post


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    ThePieman

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by ThePieman on Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:50 pm

    The vote is very close, if anyone else has anything to add to the debate please do so. What a Face
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Dutch Budo on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:32 pm

    If you vote the first option Ill give you reps Razz


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    Hanon

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Hanon on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:03 pm

    A suggestion.

    How about a simple 'Thanks' button? Each post can receive a thank you. Its individual to that post. Its related to the content not the poster.
    I belong to several forum where this system is used.

    I very much want us as a new group to build and not divide. The Thanks system is a positive credit for a post that we like. If we don't like a post or disagree with a post is it not best to write a reply airing ones differences rather than just give a hidden negative?

    Better still lets all just write posts on the aspects of judo as the heading of the forum implies?

    Mike

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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Dutch Budo on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:39 pm

    Hanon wrote:A suggestion.

    How about a simple 'Thanks' button? Each post can receive a thank you. Its individual to that post. Its related to the content not the poster.
    I belong to several forum where this system is used.

    I very much want us as a new group to build and not divide. The Thanks system is a positive credit for a post that we like. If we don't like a post or disagree with a post is it not best to write a reply airing ones differences rather than just give a hidden negative?

    Better still lets all just write posts on the aspects of judo as the heading of the forum implies?

    Mike


    This could work, much like `liking` on facebook.


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    Quicksilver

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Quicksilver on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:04 am

    My 2c...

    Though as has already been said ranking systems can be advantageousin that that
    they may help new readers to distinguish people who give solid, credible advice from
    those who don't, the reactions to one such person by other posters often quickly
    have the same effect.

    As something of an aside it's also fascinating how often the value gleaned from a
    post, any post, may be more dependent on the comprehension and insight of the reader
    than that of the original poster or their intentions.

    Also, where there's a system like that there will be the temptation for some people
    to abuse it, and one person with a grudge can have a surprisingly big effect- the
    result being that there's not guarantee the results of reputation function would
    even be accurate enough to be of practical use.

    But this aside, my opinion is that I am inclined to vote against the reputation
    system. However though theoretically it has its advantages and disadvantages on a
    practical level, by the very nature of social systems an idiosyncratic hierarchy
    both of people and modes of thought will probably form and be apparent to some
    degree at least anyway, whether we recognize and quantify it numerically, with stars,
    or not at all. Whether this is a good or a bad thing depends of course on where you
    sit in relation to it. Neutral

    The thanks or like system idea seems like it could work well, though.


    Hanon

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Hanon on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:20 am

    Dutch Budo wrote:
    Hanon wrote:A suggestion.

    How about a simple 'Thanks' button? Each post can receive a thank you. Its individual to that post. Its related to the content not the poster.
    I belong to several forum where this system is used.

    I very much want us as a new group to build and not divide. The Thanks system is a positive credit for a post that we like. If we don't like a post or disagree with a post is it not best to write a reply airing ones differences rather than just give a hidden negative?

    Better still lets all just write posts on the aspects of judo as the heading of the forum implies?

    Mike


    This could work, much like `liking` on facebook.

    Hiya,

    No idea about facebook don't have one. I am not computer savvy and the times I have got involved in anything on the software side I tend to make a true mess of it. Not long ago I tried to do some cleaning on the makoto site and erased around 50 members etc.
    I tried to edit my youtube clips and add a commentary and lost my account and all the clips! Don't ask I don't understand how. I take things slowly but still end up in a mess. It took me two years at least to work my way around youtube, open an account then learn how to upload or download or whatever its called.
    I am stubborn as a mule. if I don't like something I tend to block it and fight against myself.

    I just hope we all learn from mistakes and don't import them from the past. This forum could work if we all help Dew to make it work. That means getting along with each other. If we cant get along just ignore not go giving hidden negatives? Lets throw each other around face to face, then give a hand up.

    I will, of course, abide by forum rules.

    Mike


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    Jonesy

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Jonesy on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:48 am

    I am totally opposed to the use of +, - and reputation. They end up being used to rate people not what the quality of what they post. It was one of the worst aspects of the JF......
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    Creamy creamy baileys

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Creamy creamy baileys on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:42 am

    Hanon wrote:A suggestion.

    How about a simple 'Thanks' button? Each post can receive a thank you. Its individual to that post. Its related to the content not the poster.
    I belong to several forum where this system is used.

    I very much want us as a new group to build and not divide. The Thanks system is a positive credit for a post that we like. If we don't like a post or disagree with a post is it not best to write a reply airing ones differences rather than just give a hidden negative?

    Better still lets all just write posts on the aspects of judo as the heading of the forum implies?

    Mike


    Yes - thus would be my preferred system also

    Admin
    Admin

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

    Post by Admin on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:50 am

    So far we have ten votes for and if you add both opposing votes up 14 against. I am thinking a compromise is in order whereby the overall reputation is not activated but the individual post function is. That way you're indivisdual posts can be voted upon rather than your whole character. This would still allow people to flag trollike posts and say thanks for good posts but would not allow character assassination by disgruntled posters and trolls. So basically option two.

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    Re: A poll for the new JF members.

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