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    New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

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    edbiology

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Location : San Diego, USA

    New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by edbiology on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:50 pm

    Hi, I know the answer must have been mentioned somewhere in the forum, but can someone quickly tell me if you can "touch" opponent's thigh with your elbow? For example, in kouchi makikomi to use elbow instead of hand to lock uke's thigh, or in sode tsurikomi goshi to use elbow instead of hand to guide uke'e legs into air. Thanks!
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    Udon

    Posts : 153
    Join date : 2012-12-31
    Location : Minnesota

    Re: New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by Udon on Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:24 pm

    Under the new rules both of the actions you refer to would be penalized with hansokumake. It is a shame.

    mr. tadashi

    Posts : 2
    Join date : 2013-02-08
    Age : 34
    Location : Portland

    Re: New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by mr. tadashi on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:44 am

    Sode tsurikomi goshi is legal as long as you don't use the Koga version.

    still learning

    Posts : 125
    Join date : 2013-01-20
    Age : 48
    Location : South Wales UK

    Re: New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by still learning on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:30 am

    Udon wrote:Under the new rules both of the actions you refer to would be penalized with hansokumake. It is a shame.

    I've recently completed a refereeing course and not quite so simple...

    ...the elbow is allowed to touch below the waist for 2 throw exceptions only, and both exceptions only apply whilst tori is holding ukes' jacket / sleeve / lapel with both hands (i.e. both hands are actively gripping). In such circumstances it permissible for toris elbow to make contact with the leg for the throws kouchi makikomi and sode tsurkomi gosh. It was emphasised however that if uke was using both hands then contact with the elbow would not be expected the deciding factor in whether or not the throws would work.

    BIG WARNING however, if the hand looses contact with the jacket during the throw HSM.

    Hope that helps.
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    BillC

    Posts : 806
    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Vista, California

    Re: New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by BillC on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:57 am

    still learning wrote:
    ...the elbow is allowed to touch below the waist ...

    Except on Tuesdays, unless it is a leap year, and then only the first Friday after a full moon but only if an ordained referee pronounces the visibility to be adequate but only the portion of the arm between 32.675 mm and 9.375 mm from the numerical average fingertip length as measured using the new and improved sokuteiki available only from authorized IJF dealers for only $99.95 for a limited time ... yeah ... really spectacular.

    Ed ... Kelly and Johnny have been itching for a rules update from Gary Takemoto and have scheduled it ... I think at the dojo ... but defintely on the 28th. Mark Yamanaka will be there as well. It's a practical so bring your judogi. There will be a small fee as part of the rule changes seem to be that everything is going to cost more money. Anyway, check it out and bring the guys from your other dojo as well. You young guys just gotta roll with these rules for now so you may as well be competent.

    Cheers.

    Bill


    Last edited by BillC on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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    edbiology

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Location : San Diego, USA

    Re: New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by edbiology on Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:32 pm

    Thanks Bill, I will be there. I am taking it slow these couple weeks, my fingers and knees are a bit sore. I will see you guys next monday.

    beyondgrappling

    Posts : 73
    Join date : 2013-01-26

    Re: New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by beyondgrappling on Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:58 pm

    Still learning is right!
    Your elbow can be engaged as long as your hand has a grip on the lapel or sleeve above the belt.
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    edbiology

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Location : San Diego, USA

    Re: New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by edbiology on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:12 pm

    still learning wrote:
    Udon wrote:Under the new rules both of the actions you refer to would be penalized with hansokumake. It is a shame.

    I've recently completed a refereeing course and not quite so simple...

    ...the elbow is allowed to touch below the waist for 2 throw exceptions only, and both exceptions only apply whilst tori is holding ukes' jacket / sleeve / lapel with both hands (i.e. both hands are actively gripping). In such circumstances it permissible for toris elbow to make contact with the leg for the throws kouchi makikomi and sode tsurkomi gosh. It was emphasised however that if uke was using both hands then contact with the elbow would not be expected the deciding factor in whether or not the throws would work.

    BIG WARNING however, if the hand looses contact with the jacket during the throw HSM.

    Hope that helps.

    Thanks!
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    BillC

    Posts : 806
    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Vista, California

    Re: New rule 2013, can you touch below the belt with your elbow?

    Post by BillC on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:43 am

    edbiology wrote:... I am taking it slow these couple weeks, my fingers and knees are a bit sore ...

    Good excuse to show up on Saturday at 9 to do junokata with Bruce, Paul, Wendy, Ruth, Fireman Dan ... occasionally BillyMac.

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