E-Judo

Judo network and forum


    Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Share
    avatar
    cuivien

    Posts : 118
    Join date : 2013-01-15
    Age : 33
    Location : Norway

    Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Post by cuivien on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:30 am

    I recently stumbled across some articles about the development of the modern Olympic Games, and one name that was brought up again and again was Baron Pierre de Coubertin (1863-1937), occasionally hailed as "the true father of the Games". However, what caught my eye was not so much the OG, nor the Comité pour la Propagation des Exercises Physiques that he founded, but his interest in education, particularly physical education, and his "philosophy of pedagogical sport".

    I give some quotes from Lucas, John A.
    Basic to his philosophy was a consuming belief in the essentiality of an "active mind in a strong and healthy body". Physical recreation and athletic training alone could not bring about this nearly ideal state

    He felt that sport was a means to an end, that is "the upliftment of mind, strengthening of moral character and physical power"

    He (=Coubertin) was profoundly convinced that athletic training and games were an ancient and integral part of Greek culture and religion and one of the reasons for her greatness. It was his hope that [through this] modern societies might begin again to emulate the Greeks.

    Coubertin's conception of sport was the most obvious aspect of a grand attempt to fuse academic training with moral and physical education. The catalyst would be sport. It always remained the "raison d'être" of his elaborate plan of educational reform

    As Kanô was involved in the International Olympics Committee (IOC) from 1909 and onwards, he would certainly have heard of, or even met with Coubertin. And during my brief perusal of the articles (including the one I'm attaching), I got the feeling that Kanô might have picked up a thing or two from the man.

    Does anyone have any input/ideas/comments?
    Attachments
    Lucas, John A. 'Baron Pierre de Coubertin and his Philosophy of Pedagogical Sport'.pdf
    You don't have permission to download attachments.
    (102 Kb) Downloaded 5 times


    _________________
    Modern dôjô yaburi
    avatar
    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 857
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:25 am

    cuivien wrote:I recently stumbled across some articles about the development of the modern Olympic Games, and one name that was brought up again and again was Baron Pierre de Coubertin (1863-1937), occasionally hailed as "the true father of the Games". However, what caught my eye was not so much the OG, nor the Comité pour la Propagation des Exercises Physiques that he founded, but his interest in education, particularly physical education, and his "philosophy of pedagogical sport".

    I give some quotes from Lucas, John A.
    Basic to his philosophy was a consuming belief in the essentiality of an "active mind in a strong and healthy body". Physical recreation and athletic training alone could not bring about this nearly ideal state

    He felt that sport was a means to an end, that is "the upliftment of mind, strengthening of moral character and physical power"

    He (=Coubertin) was profoundly convinced that athletic training and games were an ancient and integral part of Greek culture and religion and one of the reasons for her greatness. It was his hope that [through this] modern societies might begin again to emulate the Greeks.

    Coubertin's conception of sport was the most obvious aspect of a grand attempt to fuse academic training with moral and physical education. The catalyst would be sport. It always remained the "raison d'être" of his elaborate plan of educational reform

    As Kanô was involved in the International Olympics Committee (IOC) from 1909 and onwards, he would certainly have heard of, or even met with Coubertin. And during my brief perusal of the articles (including the one I'm attaching), I got the feeling that Kanô might have picked up a thing or two from the man.

    Does anyone have any input/ideas/comments?

    Yes, but no need to reinvent the wheel here as there is ample research on this. I think Joe Svinth has written or commented about it before, but I think that particularly Professor Andreas Niehaus has devoted a lot of academic research to this area. Wdax may be able to point you in the right direction there. That is to say ... it is stuff that I am not researching myself as it is removed too much from the technical contents of judo and more towards the political history. Moreover, since Niehaus devoted a the majority of his research to Kano and the Olympic movement, and he is a very capable gentleman, I don't really have anything to add and thus defer to his work.


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
    avatar
    cuivien

    Posts : 118
    Join date : 2013-01-15
    Age : 33
    Location : Norway

    Re: Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Post by cuivien on Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:01 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Yes, but no need to reinvent the wheel here as there is ample research on this. I think Joe Svinth has written or commented about it before, but I think that particularly Professor Andreas Niehaus has devoted a lot of academic research to this area. Wdax may be able to point you in the right direction there. That is to say ... it is stuff that I am not researching myself as it is removed too much from the technical contents of judo and more towards the political history. Moreover, since Niehaus devoted a the majority of his research to Kano and the Olympic movement, and he is a very capable gentleman, I don't really have anything to add and thus defer to his work.

    My apologies, I was not aware that Niehaus had covered this topic properly. I only have one of his articles dealing with the Olympic Games, the

    Niehaus, Andreas (2006) 'If you want to cry, cry on the green mats of Kôdôkan': expressions of Japanese cultural and national identity in the movement to include judo into the olympic programme INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF THE HISTORY OF SPORT. 23(7). p.1173-1192

    and this simply states:
    (...) Kanô incorporated de Coubertin’s sport philosophy into judo and hoped to include Japanese martial arts, especially kendo and judo, into the Olympic programme: ‘I hope that martial arts and athleticism will develop hand in hand. Even though they are different, their goal is still the same: the strengthening of body and mind. It is therefore wise to include kendo and judo and the attitude of bushido into the Olympic Games’.

    Ejmas gives two hits with more info now that I check,
    http://ejmas.com/jcs/2004jcs/jcsart_svinth_0504.htm
    http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth1_0201.htm


    I should learn to visit all my sources before asking... Embarassed


    _________________
    Modern dôjô yaburi
    avatar
    Cichorei Kano

    Posts : 1948
    Join date : 2013-01-16
    Age : 857
    Location : the Holy See

    Re: Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:37 am

    cuivien wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Yes, but no need to reinvent the wheel here as there is ample research on this. I think Joe Svinth has written or commented about it before, but I think that particularly Professor Andreas Niehaus has devoted a lot of academic research to this area. Wdax may be able to point you in the right direction there. That is to say ... it is stuff that I am not researching myself as it is removed too much from the technical contents of judo and more towards the political history. Moreover, since Niehaus devoted a the majority of his research to Kano and the Olympic movement, and he is a very capable gentleman, I don't really have anything to add and thus defer to his work.

    My apologies, I was not aware that Niehaus had covered this topic properly. I only have one of his articles dealing with the Olympic Games, the

    Niehaus, Andreas (2006) 'If you want to cry, cry on the green mats of Kôdôkan': expressions of Japanese cultural and national identity in the movement to include judo into the olympic programme INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF THE HISTORY OF SPORT. 23(7). p.1173-1192

    and this simply states:
    (...) Kanô incorporated de Coubertin’s sport philosophy into judo and hoped to include Japanese martial arts, especially kendo and judo, into the Olympic programme: ‘I hope that martial arts and athleticism will develop hand in hand. Even though they are different, their goal is still the same: the strengthening of body and mind. It is therefore wise to include kendo and judo and the attitude of bushido into the Olympic Games’.

    Ejmas gives two hits with more info now that I check,
    http://ejmas.com/jcs/2004jcs/jcsart_svinth_0504.htm
    http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth1_0201.htm


    I should learn to visit all my sources before asking... Embarassed

    No, no, not at all. I know you look up references, no need to apologize. I did not want to give the impression I was blowing you off. I simply meant to say that Niehaus is probably your best starting point. But a lot of his stuff has been in the form of lectures, although there are some other articles like the one which is called something like "if you want to cry, cry on the green mats of the Kodokan" or something. It is also possible that he does not exactly give the precise answer you are seeking. But still, since he has researched this stuff so much he seems to be the best resource and may at least in his reference lists provide clues for you that are relevant.


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
    avatar
    NBK

    Posts : 1106
    Join date : 2013-01-10
    Location : Tokyo, Japan

    Re: Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Post by NBK on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:02 am

    Kano wrote of him often, interspersed with the other frequent name-dropping of famous people in his writings. Baron de Coubertin was a key target in Kano's campaign to secure the Olympics for Tokyo in 1940.

    Last year's Kodokan historic calendar had a famous photo of Kano and Coubertin; I think it was after a meeting of the Olympic committee in Vienna. I have the caption and calendar someplace.



    NBK

    wdax

    Posts : 176
    Join date : 2013-01-22

    Re: Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Post by wdax on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:50 am

    Kano an Coubertin shared a lot of ideas, as pointed out in the thread. But the idea of judo being a system of physical, moral and intellectual education predates Kano´s and Coubertin´s connection and was already introduced to the (japanese) public in 1889, just before Kano´s first trip abroad.

    But there is little doubt, that Kano and Coubertin were inspired by the same source(s), especially Herbert Spencer, who´s work http://www.questia.com/library/98953746/education-intellectual-moral-and-physical was available in japan shortly after the Meiji-restoration.

    Of course, one can track back the ideas of Spencer to its more or less origins, what will lead to people like Pestalozzi. There were other educators before Spencer, who emphasized the importance of holistic education with physical education as a major field. One example is Johann Friedrich GutsMuths ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Christoph_Friedrich_GutsMuths ).

    Just read the preface of his book "Gymnastics for youth: or A practical guide to healthful and amusing exercises for the use of schools"
    http://archive.org/details/gymnasticsforyou00gutsuoft

    avatar
    cuivien

    Posts : 118
    Join date : 2013-01-15
    Age : 33
    Location : Norway

    Re: Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Post by cuivien on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:03 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    No, no, not at all. I know you look up references, no need to apologize. I did not want to give the impression I was blowing you off. I simply meant to say that Niehaus is probably your best starting point. But a lot of his stuff has been in the form of lectures, although there are some other articles like the one which is called something like "if you want to cry, cry on the green mats of the Kodokan" or something. It is also possible that he does not exactly give the precise answer you are seeking. But still, since he has researched this stuff so much he seems to be the best resource and may at least in his reference lists provide clues for you that are relevant.

    As I am not yet sure what I am seeking in regards to the link between Kanô and Coubertin, digging into Niehaus's articles would indeed be a good starting point... Wink

    It might have to wait a bit though, as I got sidetracked quite massively by wdax's contribution to the thread.
    GutsMuths seems to be one of those fascinating characters I've never heard of before, I've been stuck inside his book "Gymnastics for youth" all evening cheers

    (btw, the full copy of Spencer's book "Education" is available as PDF here for those who want it)



    _________________
    Modern dôjô yaburi

    Sponsored content

    Re: Baron Pierre de Coubertin

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:52 pm