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    Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

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    Emanuele2

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    Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by Emanuele2 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:38 am

    What is the right spell of kyokushin? On Italian websites and books I find written kyokushinkai on other websites and books in other languages (English, German or French) I find kyokushin.
    So what is the right one?

    wdax

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by wdax on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:48 am

    "kai" means something like "association" oder "society". Kyokushi is the name of the art and Kyokushinkai is the association in which the art is organized.

    Emanuele2

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by Emanuele2 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:15 am

    Ah ok thanks.
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:39 am

    Emanuele2 wrote:What is the right spell of kyokushin? On Italian websites and books I find written kyokushinkai on other websites and books in other languages (English, German or French) I find kyokushin.
    So what is the right one?

    There really is only one way (in Japanese at least) to spell the term 100% correctly, and that is 極真会館.

    The first two kanji are pronounced 'Kyokushin', which means "the highest truth" or "the ultimate truth".

    The third kanji 会 or kai, as already pointed out by Wdax, means "Association/Group/Society/Meeting", the three together (Kyokushinkai) thus meaning "The Society of the Ultimate Truth".

    If the fourth kanji 館 or kan is added (like in Kôdôkan), then the four together or "Kyokushinkaikan" mean "The Hall of the Society of the Ultimate Truth". I believe that the name as it is incorporated and patented in Japan is "Kyokushinkai".


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total


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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by genetic judoka on Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:59 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Emanuele2 wrote:What is the right spell of kyokushin? On Italian websites and books I find written kyokushinkai on other websites and books in other languages (English, German or French) I find kyokushin.
    So what is the right one?

    There really is only one way (in Japanese at least) to spell the term 100% correctly, and that is 極真会館.

    The first two kanji are pronounced 'Kyoku', which means "the highest truth" or "the ultimate truth".

    The third kanji 会 or kai, as already pointed out by Wdax, means "Association/Group/Society/Meeting", the three together (Kyokushinkai) thus meaning "The Society of the Ultimate Truth".

    If the fourth kanji 館 or kan is added (like in Kôdôkan), then the four together or "Kyokushinkaikan" mean "The Hall of the Society of the Ultimate Truth". I believe that the name as it is incorporated and patented in Japan is "Kyokushinkai".
    forgive my ignorance of the subtleties of the Japanese language, but based on that description, where does the "shin" come into play?

    also out of curiosity I put it into google translate and got "kyokushinkaikan" with no english translation, then just for kicks I put spaces between each character, and got back "the pole really would museum"


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:17 am

    genetic judoka wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Emanuele2 wrote:What is the right spell of kyokushin? On Italian websites and books I find written kyokushinkai on other websites and books in other languages (English, German or French) I find kyokushin.
    So what is the right one?

    There really is only one way (in Japanese at least) to spell the term 100% correctly, and that is 極真会館.

    The first two kanji are pronounced 'Kyoku', which means "the highest truth" or "the ultimate truth".

    The third kanji 会 or kai, as already pointed out by Wdax, means "Association/Group/Society/Meeting", the three together (Kyokushinkai) thus meaning "The Society of the Ultimate Truth".

    If the fourth kanji 館 or kan is added (like in Kôdôkan), then the four together or "Kyokushinkaikan" mean "The Hall of the Society of the Ultimate Truth". I believe that the name as it is incorporated and patented in Japan is "Kyokushinkai".
    forgive my ignorance of the subtleties of the Japanese language, but based on that description, where does the "shin" come into play?

    also out of curiosity I put it into google translate and got "kyokushinkaikan" with no english translation, then just for kicks I put spaces between each character, and got back "the pole really would museum"

    I am not sure if I understand your question correctly.

    The kanji 真 of which the on pronunciation is 'shin' and the kun pronunciation 'makoto' (cfr. "The Makoto Judo Forum" ...) means truth or reality. If your question is referring to the meaning of this concept in the name "Kyokushinkai" ... well it obviously has to do with its philosophy. Although I used to practice the style myself, I am not an expert in terms of having researched every part of its history and philosophy, but it refers to one's own real character and developing purity of character.

    You may also have recognized that the 'Kyoku', by the way, is the same kanji as the 'kime' in jûdô's "Kime-no-kata".


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total


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    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
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    cuivien

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by cuivien on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:45 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    genetic judoka wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Emanuele2 wrote:What is the right spell of kyokushin? On Italian websites and books I find written kyokushinkai on other websites and books in other languages (English, German or French) I find kyokushin.
    So what is the right one?

    There really is only one way (in Japanese at least) to spell the term 100% correctly, and that is 極真会館.

    The first two kanji are pronounced 'Kyoku', which means "the highest truth" or "the ultimate truth".

    The third kanji 会 or kai, as already pointed out by Wdax, means "Association/Group/Society/Meeting", the three together (Kyokushinkai) thus meaning "The Society of the Ultimate Truth".

    If the fourth kanji 館 or kan is added (like in Kôdôkan), then the four together or "Kyokushinkaikan" mean "The Hall of the Society of the Ultimate Truth". I believe that the name as it is incorporated and patented in Japan is "Kyokushinkai".
    forgive my ignorance of the subtleties of the Japanese language, but based on that description, where does the "shin" come into play?

    also out of curiosity I put it into google translate and got "kyokushinkaikan" with no english translation, then just for kicks I put spaces between each character, and got back "the pole really would museum"

    I am not sure if I understand your question correctly.

    The kanji 真 of which the on pronunciation is 'shin' and the kun pronunciation 'makoto' (cfr. "The Makoto Judo Forum" ...) means truth or reality. If your question is referring to the meaning of this concept in the name "Kyokushinkai" ... well it obviously has to do with its philosophy. Although I used to practice the style myself, I am not an expert in terms of having researched every part of its history and philosophy, but it refers to one's own real character and developing purity of character.

    You may also have recognized that the 'Kyo', by the way, is the same kanji as the 'kime' in jûdô's "Kime-no-kata".

    CK, I believe the confusion stems from this line:
    The first two kanji are pronounced 'Kyoku', which means "the highest truth" or "the ultimate truth".

    The two first kanji are pronounced 'Kyokushin'.

    Jisho.org gives:


    English meanings:
    10^48;
    conclusion;
    electric poles;
    end;
    extremely;
    highest rank;
    highly;
    most;
    poles;
    settlement;
    very;


    English meanings:
    Buddhist sect;
    reality;
    true;

    However, as you say, 真 here is more closely related with 魂の磨き 'polishing/refinement of spirit/character'

    Oh, also, as a sidenote; I believe the 'makoto' in the Makoto Judo Forum is 誠 rather than 真.
    Information about 誠


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:29 am

    cuivien wrote:

    CK, I believe the confusion stems from this line:
    The first two kanji are pronounced 'Kyoku', which means "the highest truth" or "the ultimate truth".

    The two first kanji are pronounced 'Kyokushin'.

    Jisho.org gives:


    English meanings:
    10^48;
    conclusion;
    electric poles;
    end;
    extremely;
    highest rank;
    highly;
    most;
    poles;
    settlement;
    very;


    English meanings:
    Buddhist sect;
    reality;
    true;

    However, as you say, 真 here is more closely related with 魂の磨き 'polishing/refinement of spirit/character'

    Oh, also, as a sidenote; I believe the 'makoto' in the Makoto Judo Forum is 誠 rather than 真.
    Information about 誠

    Cuivien,

    Thank you for being more awake than I ! You are entirely correct. Somehow, in both posts I wrote I seem to have lost a syllable (1. 'kyoku' instead of "kyokushin'; 2. 'kyo' instead of 'kyoku'...) hence it did not make sense. I have corrected both posts accordingly. You are also right with regard to the Makoto Judo Forum. I was sloppy and instead of simply going over there and having a look I made an assumption, which turned out to be wrong. I made the same mistake for which I often admonish other. Thank you for putting me back in place and reminding me to adhere to my own standards ! I'll try and do better in future.


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    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
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    cuivien

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by cuivien on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:42 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Cuivien,

    Thank you for being more awake than I ! You are entirely correct. Somehow, in both posts I wrote I seem to have lost a syllable (1. 'kyoku' instead of "kyokushin'; 2. 'kyo' instead of 'kyoku'...) hence it did not make sense. I have corrected both posts accordingly. You are also right with regard to the Makoto Judo Forum. I was sloppy and instead of simply going over there and having a look I made an assumption, which turned out to be wrong. I made the same mistake for which I often admonish other. Thank you for putting me back in place and reminding me to adhere to my own standards ! I'll try and do better in future.

    No need to beat yourself up over a small mistake. I make tons of them myself Wink

    After all, "He who never made a mistake never made a discovery" as Samuel Smiles put it


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Karate kyokushin or kyokushinkai?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:08 pm

    cuivien wrote:
    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Cuivien,

    Thank you for being more awake than I ! You are entirely correct. Somehow, in both posts I wrote I seem to have lost a syllable (1. 'kyoku' instead of "kyokushin'; 2. 'kyo' instead of 'kyoku'...) hence it did not make sense. I have corrected both posts accordingly. You are also right with regard to the Makoto Judo Forum. I was sloppy and instead of simply going over there and having a look I made an assumption, which turned out to be wrong. I made the same mistake for which I often admonish other. Thank you for putting me back in place and reminding me to adhere to my own standards ! I'll try and do better in future.

    No need to beat yourself up over a small mistake. I make tons of them myself Wink

    After all, "He who never made a mistake never made a discovery" as Samuel Smiles put it

    Dang, man, and I was just about to complete the upward cut !! banghead


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    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

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