Cichorei Kano wrote:
NYCNewbie wrote:Are any of these actually Ura Nage? Because these look like what I do as well.
The first technique has sufficient characteristics of ura-nage to term it that way. There is a clear attempt to throw behind one's back. The second technique is clearly not ura-nage but standing daki-wakare, whereas the third technique is closest to what you do. However, it could also be considered just daki-wakare, but not just ura-nage; the problem there is situated in that stopping moment that occurs just before 00'33"; is that really a stopping moment where the second throw starts or is it a ken-ken moment. As such, one could argue whether it is a ken-ken daki-wakare or renzoku-waza ura-nage + daki-wakare. I would suggest to keep that one too on daki-wakare. The difference may be hard to decide without feeling the technique. As said though, most people will generally term all of them ura-nage but that is largely because of the unfamiliarity with daki-wakare as a name referring to while performed with both players standing. Even though all three techniques may look similar, they are not the same, and that has to do with control as well as uke's reaction, and weight distribtution prompting tori to go for the most effective solution.
I appreciate all this.
One thing I can describe- my feeling at least- is that there is this push vs. pull dynamic as Uke and I are engaged. He is actively trying to take me forward, I am actively trying to take him backwards. He's initiated the action (meaning: I didn't set out
to take him backwards, whereas he did
set out to take me forwards), but now, regardless of the originator, we are in a forwards vs. backwards war, and I am now 100% committed to trying to throw him to the rear. This back and forth tussle can sometimes be over in a nanosecond (he tries for Uchimata and then *BANG!
- I rapidly reverse our course and twist-and-slam him down to the mat), or sometimes it can take a bit of time (he and I will be in a kind of bodily tug of war so to speak, one that'll last 2-3 seconds before I will eventually "win," taking him down as described). Regardless of whether it happens instantaneously or takes some time, there is always a "pause"- a moment when the action shifts and we're now no longer going forwards, we're going the other way. This is a sweet feeling for me because that's when I know for 100% certain that Uke is going down!
Of the three "Ura Nages" in the compilation video, the first one is the most familiar to me- simply because it's the exact situation I find myself in: righty v. righty, Uke misses w/Uchimata, Tori counters with a twisting-slamming throw to the rear. I guess his would be Ura Nage because it's a "bigger" action towards the sky? Because I have to say that this actually looks very similar to what I feel I do, except of course it looks ten times better- more dynamic, more beautiful, more airtime for Uke- than what I do. I keep watching it and I don't really see Tori trying to "throw Uke skywards towards the rear (meaning: up and over his head, as with the classical/canonical Ura Nage of the Nage No Kata) as much as I see him simply twisting and turning with Uke in midair as one unit
, just like me. As such, that first one doesn't appear to me to be Ura Nage either- if Ura Nage by definition involves an attempt to hoist Uke up and over Tori's head skywards towards the rear.
Now obviously you've forgotten more about Judo than I'll ever know- so it's not like I'm telling you you're wrong- I just see it slightly differently. To me, none
of those three throws are Ura Nage- but whatever they are, all three of them are pretty much what I do.
Should the name of that video be changed to "standing Daki Wakare?"