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    Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by genetic judoka on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:43 am

    I like you, Q. but I very strongly disagree with your stance on this issue. guard is a strong and worthwhile position to develop some proficiency in. if nothing else, being good at a position helps you learn how to avoid it. I hate the turtle, a lot. but in playing from there in practice I've gotten better at breaking others out of turtle.


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    Res Judicata

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Res Judicata on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:52 am

    So...who here thinks that Okano couldn't play guard well? He's my touchstone for what a Judo player should aspire to be. (Hint: there's quite a nice section on guard work in his Vital Judo: Grappling Techniques).

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    Q mystic

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Q mystic on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:53 am

    genetic judoka wrote:I like you, Q. but I very strongly disagree with your stance on this issue. guard is a strong and worthwhile position to develop some proficiency in. if nothing else, being good at a position helps you learn how to avoid it. I hate the turtle, a lot. but in playing from there in practice I've gotten better at breaking others out of turtle.

    I like you too GJ!=)

    I think the development of gaurd should be, fast sub or sweep; if not, then clamp a very tight wrapped gaurd and wait. Very tight. Face into neck deal and you'll practice alot to become very efficient at it via people that beat you in bi-ped stand and top control.lol

    My gaurd, (and many, many others here) in 1990 was greater than bjjers have now in that I had a much more effective gaurd vs wrestlers or anyone really, than they have now. The cats been outta the bag so to speak and gloves were added. Surely, WE ALL DO KNOW that gloves were to prevent faces looking/being mangled in mma via top control(and to give boxers a chance). Thats why we're still talking gaurd.

    Besides, I don't give sh*t what or whom I smoke with gaurd or how good I was with it, I'll never be comfy in combat with my legs spread on the ground. No gay, just seems not very sensible and it isn't quantum mechanics.lol

    For sure, just chat tho GJ, and kinda spooked in that I've been getting back into the scene and don't want to pee anyone off.lol To assuming people are normal and this means nothing in the big picture of grappling; gaurd is fine for all practical purpose, of course. Very Happy


    Last edited by Q mystic on Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Q mystic on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:56 am

    Res Judicata wrote:So...who here thinks that Okano couldn't play guard well? He's my touchstone for what a Judo player should aspire to be. (Hint: there's quite a nice section on guard work in his Vital Judo: Grappling Techniques).


    He could, I'm sure, and it would have worked fine(awesome) in a non-modern day grappling atmosphere.

    It worked on Sonnen vs AS because of gloves, rounds, and exhaustion. And Sonnens got an ego.lol


    Last edited by Q mystic on Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Q mystic on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:58 am

    hedgehogey wrote:And there you have it, the 'How to stay horrible at ne waza for your entire judo career' manifesto.

    I've been eyeballing and I believe that modern bjj has learnt as much from wrestling as vice versa.

    There really isnt alot to newaza between 2 equal fighters. Unless there's a game made of it. Like IJF Judo standing between 2 pros.lol
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Q mystic on Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:27 am

    I know you believe me Hedge. Even if you dont want to. Very Happy

    Here's the deal HH. You have your game down and reflex enuff that it won't lose anything inside of 6 months, really. lol. I'm very serious. Thats like an injury but in place, you'll hit a very decent judo or wrestling club. You're young enuff to do this easily. Please dont fret about this and age. Please.

    6 months judo and/or wrestling. Thick and heavy. Like Camp. Not rec. They'll cater even if you do your bjj. It isnt any worse than if you didnt cuz they will still go hard as they can no matter. Your mental concept of 'they hate me' will make the rest which will be bs, like the rest of us thought. Tell them tho that you need some judo/wrestling.

    You'll come out, go back to bjj and inside of 6 months your old bjj tech will be just as sharp but I bet sharper. No kidding, and you'll have a brand new ass-kicking game. Just like that. Yup. Just like that. Judo or wrestling at bjj is not the same.

    Not a huge fan of bjj but it seems clear when I see bjjers that have done hard camp judo compared to those that havent. Pisses me off that they don't speak moreso but not sure if they know either. Most are younger.lol See then if your gaurd concept changes. Know also that I truly believe you will be a better fighter for it. Wrestling and judo practice at the club or decent heavy 2x visits/week arent near the same. It doesnt matter if you see holes in their game, that's not the point.

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by hedgehogey on Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:39 pm

    Q-Dubz, i'm sorry but I couldn't mine meaning from that dark cavern of letters.
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Q mystic on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:29 pm

    hedgehogey wrote:Q-Dubz, i'm sorry but I couldn't mine meaning from that dark cavern of letters.

    lol. I hear you. Very Happy
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Ricebale on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:02 pm

    Q mystic wrote:
    hedgehogey wrote:Q-Dubz, i'm sorry but I couldn't mine meaning from that dark cavern of letters.

    lol. I hear you. Very Happy

    HH, this may help to translate what is being said



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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Wed May 01, 2013 7:50 am

    Wandering WB wrote:
    I think in the long run it's better to work on recovering to guard from a failed throw than stay in turtle (this in randori). You need to have the skill, and then as you progress and gain experience with different relative positions of uke and tori in post-throw situtations, you can start to be aware of what is going on in shiai and make conscious decisions.

    Also, you can position your self in turtle relative to uke to make it more difficult for him to turn you or get on your back. It's best to face your opponent when you are turtled, and be active, looking for workable openings to attack or immprove your position. Be mobile there and it will improve your chances.

    Learn from being pinned, it's randori, who cares? YOu can work on escapes/reversals at that point.
    Hey, Reinhardt, that's what I was gonna say! By the way, my competition vid should be up today or tomorrow, maybe you can tell me what you think.

    Sure, I'd be glad to.
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Wed May 01, 2013 7:56 am

    hedgehogey wrote:And there you have it, the 'How to stay horrible at ne waza for your entire judo career' manifesto.

    Pretty much, although for purposes of pure competition I suppose it could be workable. And I'm not sure what Q means by "guard". If he means a relatively static closed guard, I can kind of see the point, however, most of us do a lot more randori than shiai so it's more a matter of balance/priorities in training than anything else.

    I sure prefer to fight from open guard or scramble and stand up than to be turtled up with someone attacking who knows what they are doing.

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    Re: Good in newaza, bad in newaza randori?

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