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    Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

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    Ricebale

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    Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Ricebale on Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:28 am



    Double DQ at the Brown Belt final for stalling and stuff.

    I found this match so tactical that I couldn't see the issue, the beginning where they both sit down and sorta wave their legs at each other then one dude rolls over and shows his bottom. Admittedly I fell asleep for a while but when I woke up they were still going Laughing

    (and yes I am being sarcastic.)

    BJJ seriously has to enforce more of these decisions IMO to bring the art back to its combat roots, this looked like dojo rolling and not two guys who wanted to win a world title. The butt flop and into 50/50 stuff whilst useful for stalling does not do this art any favours IMO.

    A had a few friends at this comp and they won some and lost some but they all gave it a good go.

    Cheers
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Ricebale on Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:41 am

    Some other detracting comments from the video:

    A decisão do juiz foi perfeita, não podia ser melhor, tempo perfeito para ver se realmente se desenrolava algo, mas... sem chance... lutinha mais feia... isso esta acabando com a beleza no nosso BJJ há que por freios nesses guardeiros que não desenvolvem bem o bonito e habilidoso jiu... PARABÉNS AO ARBITRO

    The judge's decision was perfect, could not be better, perfect time to see if something actually unfolded, but ... no chance ... wrestling uglier ... it is ending with the beauty in our BJJ is that these brakes for guard players do not develop as well the beautiful and skilled jiu ... CONGRATULATIONS TO THE REFEREE


    If you have to play so safe in order to win, I honestly don't see the point. Guys like Roger, Marcelo, Glover, etc, all compete at the highest level and are constantly looking for dominant positions and finishes. I love BJJ but watching two guys play footsies, 50/50, for an entire match is almost unbearable to watch. I doubt Helio would approve. That's just my opinion though.

    Trying sticking your junk in another mans face when there are no rules and see how it works. This stuff (inverted guard, 50/50, etc) is the opposite of what Helio Gracie developed.
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    finarashi

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by finarashi on Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:46 pm

    Shocking,
    can't the referees understand how proper BJJ matches should flow?
    I mean coud they, gasp, next forbid the use of these beautiful, age old techniques that have always been part of BJJ and are among the most effective!
    cyclops Very Happy


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    hedgehogey

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by hedgehogey on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:21 pm

    I saw Finarashi was the last to reply and I thought that it's one of life's little constants that he'll always say something asinine and boy did it give me a warm feeling when I was right.

    Regardless of how you feel about Keenan and Joao's style (people run away from their guards for reasons), you can't DQ someone for something that's not against the rules. As far as I can tell, scissoring is still legal.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Ricebale on Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:15 pm

    I think it was the 3 stall rule, it usually (yet still very infrequently) is applied to one guy and as a finals match it made it all the more interesting.

    As an aside I think a relative of the shiek got a medal because of the DQ so just maybe....

    As a fan of bjj for fighting personally I hate this style of play but I will concede it can win bjj matches.

    Cheerd


    Last edited by Ricebale on Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by hedgehogey on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:01 am

    They were never stalling. You can see leglock and berimbolo attempts.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Ricebale on Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:30 am

    hedgehogey wrote:They were never stalling. You can see leglock and berimbolo attempts.

    hedgehogey wrote:They were never stalling. You can see leglock and berimbolo attempts.

    There were berimbolo "attempts" and leg lock "attempts" but they weren't serious, more like fakes.

    I'm guessing the ref is sick of this passing for bjj:



    I get the tactics of this play, mate of mine competed in the phillipines for the no gi version, he is a bjj coach and I was his mma/wrestling coach. His opponent butt flopped and proceeded to scoot across the mat towards him. I had warned him thatit would happen but in any event he basically came back with the tstatement that until they fix this issue in bjj he preffered mma as it allowed him to use his bjj techniques rather than play a stalling fakes game.

    Different strokes for different folks I suppose, I prefer seeing dudes trying to win over trying not to lose in any combat sport. Bjj has to cross this bridge like everyone else has imo and this is how it is manifesting.

    beyondgrappling

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    here are some other ways you can get DQ'd in BJJ

    Post by beyondgrappling on Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:30 pm


    hedgehogey

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by hedgehogey on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:01 pm

    Ricebale wrote:
    There were berimbolo "attempts" and leg lock "attempts" but they weren't serious, more like fakes.


    You can't fake a berimbolo. It's physically impossible.


    I get the tactics of this play, mate of mine competed in the phillipines for the no gi version, he is a bjj coach and I was his mma/wrestling coach. His opponent butt flopped and proceeded to scoot across the mat towards him. I had warned him thatit would happen but in any event he basically came back with the tstatement that until they fix this issue in bjj he preffered mma as it allowed him to use his bjj techniques rather than play a stalling fakes game.


    If your friend didn't want to try to pass guard, this might not be the sport for him.


    Different strokes for different folks I suppose, I prefer seeing dudes trying to win over trying not to lose in any combat sport. Bjj has to cross this bridge like everyone else has imo and this is how it is manifesting.

    And that's your opinion. You can't DQ someone over your opinion though. Unless you're this ref.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Ricebale on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:35 pm

    And yours is also merely opinion, you do not represent bjj no matter how hard you try, however I do commend your passion.

    There's a lot of people out there that lament the direction bjj is going, passing guard is always there and is a vakuable combat skill, chasing dudes around on your bottom is another matter.

    Cheers

    hedgehogey

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by hedgehogey on Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:43 pm

    Are you being deliberately obtuse? The counter to buttscooting is to pass guard. That is all buttscooting is, a particularly weird looking guard pull.

    In fact if your friend refused to try to pass or engage, then he's the one that's stalling.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Ricebale on Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:23 pm

    I'm being auatralian Smile

    He passed etc that's not the issue, if you don't get what's wrong with butt scooting as opposed to tactical guard pulling then the combat aspect of bjj may elude you.

    Also we are from different generations so our perspectives on what bjj is or isn't probably differs.

    Cheers
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    finarashi

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by finarashi on Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:30 pm

    I tried to be sarcastic and compare this to banning on grabbing the foot in Judo. When otherwise common practcies lead to matches where nothing is done then rules tend to change to ban that kind of action. But ...


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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Dutch Budo on Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:54 am

    I dont agree with this decision. But my opinion is based on IBJJF regulations and this isnt a IBJJF event.


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    hedgehogey

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by hedgehogey on Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:43 am

    Ricebale wrote:I'm being auatralian Smile

    That's absolutely criminal.


    He passed etc that's not the issue, if you don't get what's wrong with butt scooting as opposed to tactical guard pulling then the combat aspect of bjj may elude you.


    I've won a streetfight from buttscoot. I've seen MMA fights won from buttscoot. What exactly is the problem here? Are we going to ban every attack in BJJ that you wouldn't do in PRIDE rules? Say goodbye to upside down guard, the typical stance for standup, 50/50 (oh, wait), turtling, deep half, etc.

    And don't get condescending. I'm a purple under Relson, and i've actually used this shit when people have attacked me (there's a video floating around of me doing just that). I know BJJ SD, probably better than you.


    Also we are from different generations so our perspectives on what bjj is or isn't probably differs.

    I've been practicing BJJ almost eight years.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Ricebale on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:03 am

    Good points, I've seen your vids and your skills are sound no issues there. I'll beg to differ on the sd comment as we are definately exposed to different bjj. I'm cool with Pride rules and imo the bjj has to remember its purpose.

    You are arguing from an entrenched position and mine differs no probs. It is annoying when someone gets all superior isn't it Smile

    Your bjj being 8 years old is still the newer version but if you train directly under relson I'm surprised he has gone so far to the dark side but hey time only goes forward. My bjj years were 1993-1999ish so I am so way last century Smile

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    Ricebale

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by Ricebale on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:17 am



    I would have DQ'd the shirtless guy here

    idealab

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

    Post by idealab on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:23 pm

    This is the first time I have seen this video. I can see why judo has the rule to pause the match once
    someone stands up inside the another's guard. The pulling guard like this is asking for injury if done outside
    the mat (on the street). Furthermore, I have been competing
    internationally in judo for nearly a decade and I have never seen such display poor sportsmanships,
    perhaps there is a different mentality?

    beyondgrappling wrote:

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    Re: Double DQ at the Abu Dhabi Pro 2013

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