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    Wandering WB

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    Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:30 pm

    I competed in Grappling X this past weekend and placed second in Advanced <145lbs. Below are vids of my matches.

    In my first match I lose on points because my opponent successfully defends all of my submission attempts and out-positions me. He then quickly lost by Hadaka Jime, although you don't see it here. Then he had to go against me again and this time I catch him. It was hard because he lifted me into the air and defended well, but the triangle is a move I drill a lot. I said he was one of the toughest guys I had gone against. He said, No, you are the toughest guy I have gone against. In the final round all I could do was defend because I had no energy left and my opponent was rested. In case anyone is wondering, my strategy for this tournament was to stay calm and get the submission, not try to dominate from the top.







    I already got a critical review of my matches from my coach, but if there is anything you guys would like to point out then that's what this forum is for.

    PointyShinyBurning

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by PointyShinyBurning on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:25 pm

    I like your aggression and hip movement from the closed guard even in the first match you lost. You were giving away points every time you stood back up, though, you either need to work on your defensive wrestling (front headlock and sprawl rather than going for a half-assed guillotine) or commit to the butt-scoot and be confident in your open guard recovery. Watch some "Cyborg" Abreu and this sort of thing:


    Waiting for the opportunity to pull closed guard is also making you give up take-down points. There's always going to be guys who make that a hard job, so you need to develop another option you like (as well as its entries). Personally I baseball-slide into half-guard in those circumstances, but as a lankier guy you might prefer (for example) De La Riva and butterfly.
    Wandering WB wrote:In case anyone is wondering, my strategy for this tournament was to stay calm and get the submission, not try to dominate from the top.
    As a general rule, trying to sub guys off the bottom isn't super high-percentage in no-gi, you need to work in some sweeps, even if just to score and those are hard from closed guard. Guys get a lot easier to submit when they're behind on points and under pressure rather than up and sitting there with their elbows tight.

    Got to say, lots of progress from the last videos I saw of you. Your game is good, it could just do with a bit of broadening.

    tafftaz

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by tafftaz on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:54 pm

    I cannot comment on the video because I have only ever competed in Judo, but nice one WB. Takes guts to go out there and even more to post a video.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Ricebale on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:12 pm

    Hey dude,

    As above, posting matches takes nuts, commedations.

    For no-gi also as stated above imo is a studs game, be the man and strive for the takedowns, easy points!

    You are in the skinnies div so triangles are king.

    If yoy wanna do mma then your bottom game is cool you naturally neutralize the hands just need more mojo.

    I salute you.

    Cheers
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:30 pm

    tafftaz wrote:I cannot comment on the video because I have only ever competed in Judo, but nice one WB. Takes guts to go out there and even more to post a video.

    I second what tafftaz said.


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    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:31 am

    Thanks everyone, I appreciate your views:)

    PointyShinyBurning
    I like the spinning guard recovery, I like butterfly guard. Cyborg's legs on back guard is difficult to enter without the Gi and De La Riva opens legock options for the person on top. I'd rather be the guy applying the leglock.

    As a general rule, trying to sub guys off the bottom isn't super high-percentage in no-gi, you need to work in some sweeps, even if just to score and those are hard from closed guard. Guys get a lot easier to submit when they're behind on points and under pressure rather than up and sitting there with their elbows tight.
    Closed guard is where it's gonna go on the street, if I get into a streetfight against a wrestler - not that I want to. I don't wanna give up on the concept of closed guard to armbar, I just need a better guard.

    Ricebale

    For no-gi also as stated above imo is a studs game, be the man and strive for the takedowns, easy points!

    My takedown game is improving and there should be results soon. I don't know about MMA, but I think I am going to try Pankration.

    taftaz and CK
    I cannot comment on the video because I have only ever competed in Judo, but nice one WB. Takes guts to go out there and even more to post a video.
    Thank you.
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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by genetic judoka on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:36 am

    for whatever it's worth you've gained some respect points from me for posting videos.

    you gotta work on those takedowns though, I saw a lot of good opportunities missed (frankly though looking at the grappling matches I posted I don't have much room to talk).

    in the second match, what was your hand doing at the 4:00 mark? I can't quite tell but it looked like you were snapping your fingers or something.


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    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:21 am

    genetic judoka

    for whatever it's worth you've gained some respect points from me for posting videos.
    in the second match, what was your hand doing at the 4:00 mark? I can't quite tell but it looked like you were snapping your fingers or something.
    For whatever it's worth, thanks.
    He is standing on my biceps with all his body weight resting on his foot and I am trying to free my hand by flinging it side to side. That is the correct way to escape for him and quite uncomfortable for me. I wouldn't snap my fingers in the middle of the match... they might interpret it like I was giving up.
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Q mystic on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:28 am

    Good stuff WWB thumbup1


    Want more throws tho. Very Happy Like the attempt wth left seoi.

    PointyShinyBurning

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by PointyShinyBurning on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:32 am

    Wandering WB wrote:
    Closed guard is where it's gonna go on the street, if I get into a streetfight against a wrestler - not that I want to. I don't wanna give up on the concept of closed guard to armbar, I just need a better guard.
    If that's how you want to go, closed guard then get the hell up when he gives you space, it can work. But you're going to need to be able to out-wrestle people if you want to win that way, or at least defend take-downs with authority. Are you training in pure wrestling somewhere at the moment? You'll get better a lot quicker than just going take-downs with BJJ guys, as a general rule, take it from someone who has tried both ways.

    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:22 am

    I was very tired after the tournament, so I am gonna skip out on gym training until the end of the semester in college. When I go back, I'll begin preparing for another competition.
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Q mystic on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:28 am

    lol. Closed gaurd in a fight. Wasnt going o say anything until Shiny did.

    Listen WWB, drop that shiot right now outside of fighting a crazy drunken granpa.lol

    You're young and light. Take advantage of that for top while you can because those options dwindle as you get older.

    And no my friend. Being light will have nthing to do with you getting top. Better in fact. Within reason.

    Even the best of wrestlers, in the street, will have difficulty with an educated spaz.

    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:12 am

    Q mystic
    I prefer fighting off my back. I spent most of my time training jiujitsu on my back, submitting people from there. I wrote a short article on why I prefer it in Waza section. This doesn't mean I don't wanna go on top in a fight - but typically, against someone who is a better, heavier wrestler I am going to be on my back. Then I will submit him. Meanwhile, I will learn how to throw and get on top - I know that may come useful on the street or in competition eventually, too. Until I am good at it though, it's always going to be Plan B.

    Royce Gracie and Jean Jacques Machado are pretty good examples of why I don't want to avoid closed guard in a fight.
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Q mystic on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:11 pm

    Wandering WB wrote:Q mystic
    I prefer fighting off my back. I spent most of my time training jiujitsu on my back, submitting people from there. I wrote a short article on why I prefer it in Waza section. This doesn't mean I don't wanna go on top in a fight - but typically, against someone who is a better, heavier wrestler I am going to be on my back. Then I will submit him. Meanwhile, I will learn how to throw and get on top - I know that may come useful on the street or in competition eventually, too. Until I am good at it though, it's always going to be Plan B.

    Royce Gracie and Jean Jacques Machado are pretty good examples of why I don't want to avoid closed guard in a fight.

    Fair enough WWB. Sry, I tangent. I suspect really from what I read of you, you'll be fine and not even get into fights that you dont care to. You seem confident and fine and I kinda apologize for going moreso extreme that prolly wont matter. sry. Smile

    Still, more throws. For the ladies even. Smile
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    judoratt

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by judoratt on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:16 pm

    Well done thanks for the videos. I like the music. goodjob
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Dutch Budo on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:46 pm

    You have made some progression from when we first saw you, so good on you.

    A few things I saw. Dont focuss on just the armbar from guard, this is very hard in Grappling especially later in the match. Theres a nice instructional I made about setting up a sankaku from guard, which is a lot easier with slippery limbs.

    Your focuss of just playing guard is wrong, you need to get to the top. If you can put a wrestler on his back, I garantee you, you will win. So you need to work hard on your sweeps. I personally find it hard to sweep with the full guard (aside from somebody escaping an omoplata), so I prefer half guard or butterfly guard.

    In the first match you were on your back and your opponent was standing. SIT UP!! Butterfly guard only works when you sit up straight, this way you have momentum.

    So in general you have to work on takedown defense, sweeps and sitting up in your butterfly guard.


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    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:16 am

    You have made some progression from when we first saw you, so good on you.
    Now there is an understatement.

    Theres a nice instructional I made about setting up a sankaku from guard, which is a lot easier with slippery limbs.
    You realize that I won by triangle, right? Hmmm... Nope, I don't think you do. Watch the second video again.
    Your focuss of just playing guard is wrong, you need to get to the top. If you can put a wrestler on his back, I garantee you, you will win. So you need to work hard on your sweeps. I personally find it hard to sweep with the full guard (aside from somebody escaping an omoplata), so I prefer half guard or butterfly guard.
    Dutch, closed guard is the position I want to be in and it is the position from which I have the most submission options. I dislike half-guard, though.

    So in general you have to work on takedown defense, sweeps and sitting up in your butterfly guard.
    So in general you need to work on not trying to sound patronizing. People will ignore you. But yeah, I see your point with takedown defense.

    PointyShinyBurning

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by PointyShinyBurning on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:26 am

    Wandering WB wrote:
    Dutch, closed guard is the position I want to be in and it is the position from which I have the most submission options. I dislike half-guard, though.
    The "most submissions options" is irrelevant, no thing or combination of things you do from your guard is as high percentage as an RNC from their back. If your aim for your training is to win no-gi competitions, you need more than just good submissions from your closed guard, you need to be able to get on top either with wrestling from your feet or sweeps from the bottom. This strategy is BJJ just as much, if not more, than exclusively pursuing subs from your back, which is why it scores in BJJ competitions and why its what you'll see at the ADCC.

    Do not fall into the trap of thinking that just because a guy didn't sub you, you didn't really lose, in some higher martial arts sense. If your guard gets repeatedly passed or even stalled in during your hypothetical street fight you are giving up teeth, not points.

    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:19 am

    PointyShinyBurning
    The "most submissions options" is irrelevant, no thing or combination of things you do from your guard is as high percentage as an RNC from their back. If your aim for your training is to win no-gi competitions, you need more than just good submissions from your closed guard, you need to be able to get on top either with wrestling from your feet or sweeps from the bottom. This strategy is BJJ just as much, if not more, than exclusively pursuing subs from your back, which is why it scores in BJJ competitions and why its what you'll see at the ADCC.

    Do not fall into the trap of thinking that just because a guy didn't sub you, you didn't really lose, in some higher martial arts sense. If your guard gets repeatedly passed or even stalled in during your hypothetical street fight you are giving up teeth, not points.
    Good points and I agree. The guy I was up against was very savvy about defense, though.
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    Dutch Budo

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Dutch Budo on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:47 am

    Wandering WB wrote:
    You have made some progression from when we first saw you, so good on you.
    Now there is an understatement.

    Theres a nice instructional I made about setting up a sankaku from guard, which is a lot easier with slippery limbs.
    You realize that I won by triangle, right? Hmmm... Nope, I don't think you do. Watch the second video again.
    Your focuss of just playing guard is wrong, you need to get to the top. If you can put a wrestler on his back, I garantee you, you will win. So you need to work hard on your sweeps. I personally find it hard to sweep with the full guard (aside from somebody escaping an omoplata), so I prefer half guard or butterfly guard.
    Dutch, closed guard is the position I want to be in and it is the position from which I have the most submission options. I dislike half-guard, though.

    So in general you have to work on takedown defense, sweeps and sitting up in your butterfly guard.
    So in general you need to work on not trying to sound patronizing. People will ignore you. But yeah, I see your point with takedown defense.

    I was patornizing? You got some free advise, which I normally charge people for. Take it or leave it I guess.


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    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:01 am

    Dutch
    I was patornizing? You got some free advise, which I normally charge people for. Take it or leave it I guess.
    Here is my advice to you. Don't give me any advice.
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    judoratt

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by judoratt on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:15 pm

    Wandering WB wrote:Dutch
    I was patornizing? You got some free advise, which I normally charge people for. Take it or leave it I guess.
    Here is my advice to you. Don't give me any advice.

    I thought you were making progress, Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes oh well. If you don't listen you can't learn. But what do I know. Smile Smile

    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:58 pm

    Enough of this already. I already know what others are gonna say and I know how to continue rapidly improving my technique. Once again, thanks for watching. It's not that I don't have an open mind, it's just that some people are only stating the obvious.

    However, if someone would explain how to finish uchi-mata aka mule kick without the gi, I'd appreciate that. I have several secondary techniques off an ucimata, but I have trouble finishing the first throw on taller, lankier people (my little brother, lol - I have been trying to uchimata him without much success). I do it off an overhook, preferabbly with opponent driving in. Can it be done if the opponent is moving backwards? Besides ken-ken what other options are there for finishing it? Thanks.
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    Ricebale

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Ricebale on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:45 pm

    Off a good wizzer, step to the flank and mule kick, easy as

    Wandering WB

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    Re: Advanced Division

    Post by Wandering WB on Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:16 pm

    Off a good wizzer, step to the flank and mule kick, easy as
    Aha, he is just not gonna train with me after that.

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