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    The search for The next Yamashita

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    The_Harvest

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    The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by The_Harvest on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:59 am

    Well, with the All Japan Championships coming up I wanted to make a thread on the current and future state(?) of the Japanese heavyweights.

    Japan are desperately looking for someone to take the lead of the +100 category. They have many judo players with potential (Ojitani, Shichinohe, Momose) but none that really stands out. It's been a long time since Japan has produced a +100 heavyweight in the calibre of there past champions. The last guy decided to switch to another discipline.

    I've heard some new names being thrown most of which I've never heard of.



    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20130428-00000030-dal-spo (use google translator)

    This will also be Takamasa Anai's last tournament, a great -100 judo player and in my opinion one of the biggest underachievers in Judo (competitions).


    Last edited by The_Harvest on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:11 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Roman 3:23-26


    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8-10
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:08 am

    The_Harvest wrote:Well, with the All Japan Championships coming up I wanted to make a thread on the current and future state(?) of the Japanese heavyweights.

    Japan are desperately looking for a someone to take the lead of the +100 category. They have many judo players with potential (Ojitani, Shichinohe, Momose) but none that really stands out. It's been a long time since Japan has produced a +100 heavyweight in the calibre of there past champions. The last guy decided to switch to another discipline.

    I've heard some new names being thrown most of which I've never heard of.



    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20130428-00000030-dal-spo (use google translator)

    This will also be Takamasa Anai's last tournament, a great -100 judo player and in my opinion one of the biggest underachievers in Judo (competitions).

    My personal opinion is that ... it isn't so much Japan's concern to find a good +100 kg player, nor to find a successor for Anai. Japan's real concern is to have a +100 kg player who can solidly and decisively defeat Riner and establish Japan's dominance again at the world level.

    When you have someone like Riner or Geesink you don't just have a good athlete who is winner, and who has obtained that leadership merely through hard training. What you are dealing with is --apologies for the disrespectful-sounding expression-- a true "freak of nature". In other words, other people who belong to the same category and can train as much as they want, it will not matter unless they too are 'blessed' with similar does of "freak of nature"-ship. You have similar things with someone like Usain Bolt.

    When one 'trains', chiefly important improvements are made to someone's physiology (performance ability), and to someone's biomechanics (technical ability). However, when someone is a ... "freak of nature" there are other medical factors where the effect of training is more limited, such as anatomy and anthropometry. Anthropometrically and anatomically, Riner is of a quite extreme nature. To compensate for that merely by physiology and biomechanics will be very difficult.

    In reality, there are three ways that such issues are finally settled. That is, the "freak of nature":

    1. ... ages (Yamashita, Fujii), which means that people excelling by physiological and biomechanical parameters now increasingly can compensate for the person's extreme anthropmetrical/anatomical properties.

    2. ... quits the sport (e.g. Ruska, Okano) or gets a debilitating injury (e.g., Geesink's knee), or gets sidelined through application of sports rules (e.g. Lance Armstrong/doping, Yamashita/political boycott Moscow 1980)

    3. ... political lobbying is uses to change the rules of the sport (e.g., Geesink, Yamashita, etc.)


    Japan itself hasn't been as honorable in judo as popular sources tend to depict. After the 1961 world championships it knew very well what was waiting for the 1964 Olympics. Only through creating 3 weight classes in addition to the Open were they able to secure titles. If they hadn't, we all know what the result would have been.

    Politics in judo are never far away, and all kinds of politics can be applied to change the rules and thus the outcome of the contests. Riner weighs like 130 kg and stands 6'8" or something. All the judo rocket scientists would need to do is, let's say, limit the heavy weight category to 120 kg max, or the height to 6'6", and the deal would be done. Riduculous ? Of course, but it's a useful thinking exercise. The situation now is thoroughly different for Japan than it was in the early 1960s. Japan has lost a large part of its influence in the IJF, France is strongly present in the EJU and IJF and well linked with Vizer and would obviously block any veiled attempts to limit Riner's success by messing around with the rules.

    Japan has been quite displeased with several things that are going on in international judo. One example is the kata competitions and how the IJF deals with them. Years ago (but after Uemura took over) I was told by senior Kôdôkan and AJJF officials that Japan's take on all this was that it distanced itself from the IJF and basically would act as if the IJF did not exist. The reality shows, however, that this is wishful thinking. Japan is no more that a barking pet dog without teeth when it comes to international judo. They are selling out when it comes to judo and even the All Japan Judo Championships have adopted several IJF rules. Japanese athletes aren't boycotting IJF kata or shiai contests either. They are eagerly participating hoping each time in vain that a miracle will occur and that suddenly Japanese technical magic and woowoo will mesmerize Riner. The reality is different. Japan needs to use its moral weight, which it still have. Many people are displeased with current IJF rules, people who love real, technical judo. Japan needs to take the lead in breaking away from the IJF and starting a new world judo federation that adheres to traditional judo style and values. No country would be more successful in leading such initiative than Japan. But politically, Japan would need to defend to its people why it may not be participating in the next judo Olympics, while the laborious process is started to replace the IJF as recognized international federation for judo by the IOC. This in the end will give Japan the best way for scoring better again in judo, when that judo is kept closer to what it was meant to be. Call it application of political 'jû'.

    Japan still has some of the best, most insightful and experienced judo contest experts. Satô Nobuyuki and Okano Isao are just two of them. Satô lately has been more prominently featured in AJJF dealings, Okano still is notoriously absent, a painful reminder to one of the greatest judo athletes of all time, sidelined for a picture with a different color of gi, while today top judoka run around in all colors of gi, sometimes different color jacket and pants, and while AJJF officials may have morally done far more to harm Japan's judo reputation than anyone might accuse Okano off. Satô and Okano could be the architects of a new world federation of jûdô. They have the brains, experience, knowledge, insight, instructor and coaching skills.

    I must apologize for approaching the argument presented by the original poster in this way, because I do not directly talk about who will be the next +100 kg Japanese representative. I chose to answer in this way, because who ever that person is, I think the problem is more of a virtual nature than of a true nature. Whoever it may be, it won't change a thing. Who represents Japan where today is more a question of romantic thoughts of the past in a time and day when a country such a Georgia is becoming a more significant world player than Japan.


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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    The_Harvest

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by The_Harvest on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:02 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    The_Harvest wrote:Well, with the All Japan Championships coming up I wanted to make a thread on the current and future state(?) of the Japanese heavyweights.

    Japan are desperately looking for a someone to take the lead of the +100 category. They have many judo players with potential (Ojitani, Shichinohe, Momose) but none that really stands out. It's been a long time since Japan has produced a +100 heavyweight in the calibre of there past champions. The last guy decided to switch to another discipline.

    I've heard some new names being thrown most of which I've never heard of.



    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20130428-00000030-dal-spo (use google translator)

    This will also be Takamasa Anai's last tournament, a great -100 judo player and in my opinion one of the biggest underachievers in Judo (competitions).

    My personal opinion is that ... it isn't so much Japan's concern to find a good +100 kg player, nor to find a successor for Anai. Japan's real concern is to have a +100 kg player who can solidly and decisively defeat Riner and establish Japan's dominance again at the world level.

    When you have someone like Riner or Geesink you don't just have a good athlete who is winner, and who has obtained that leadership merely through hard training. What you are dealing with is --apologies for the disrespectful-sounding expression-- a true "freak of nature". In other words, other people who belong to the same category and can train as much as they want, it will not matter unless they too are 'blessed' with similar does of "freak of nature"-ship. You have similar things with someone like Usain Bolt.

    When one 'trains', chiefly important improvements are made to someone's physiology (performance ability), and to someone's biomechanics (technical ability). However, when someone is a ... "freak of nature" there are other medical factors where the effect of training is more limited, such as anatomy and anthropometry. Anthropometrically and anatomically, Riner is of a quite extreme nature. To compensate for that merely by physiology and biomechanics will be very difficult.

    In reality, there are three ways that such issues are finally settled. That is, the "freak of nature":

    1. ... ages (Yamashita, Fujii), which means that people excelling by physiological and biomechanical parameters now increasingly can compensate for the person's extreme anthropmetrical/anatomical properties.

    2. ... quits the sport (e.g. Ruska, Okano) or gets a debilitating injury (e.g., Geesink's knee), or gets sidelined through application of sports rules (e.g. Lance Armstrong/doping, Yamashita/political boycott Moscow 1980)

    3. ... political lobbying is uses to change the rules of the sport (e.g., Geesink, Yamashita, etc.)


    Japan itself hasn't been as honorable in judo as popular sources tend to depict. After the 1961 world championships it knew very well what was waiting for the 1964 Olympics. Only through creating 3 weight classes in addition to the Open were they able to secure titles. If they hadn't, we all know what the result would have been.

    Politics in judo are never far away, and all kinds of politics can be applied to change the rules and thus the outcome of the contests. Riner weighs like 130 kg and stands 6'8" or something. All the judo rocket scientists would need to do is, let's say, limit the heavy weight category to 120 kg max, or the height to 6'6", and the deal would be done. Riduculous ? Of course, but it's a useful thinking exercise. The situation now is thoroughly different for Japan than it was in the early 1960s. Japan has lost a large part of its influence in the IJF, France is strongly present in the EJU and IJF and well linked with Vizer and would obviously block any veiled attempts to limit Riner's success by messing around with the rules.

    Japan has been quite displeased with several things that are going on in international judo. One example is the kata competitions and how the IJF deals with them. Years ago (but after Uemura took over) I was told by senior Kôdôkan and AJJF officials that Japan's take on all this was that it distanced itself from the IJF and basically would act as if the IJF did not exist. The reality shows, however, that this is wishful thinking. Japan is no more that a barking pet dog without teeth when it comes to international judo. They are selling out when it comes to judo and even the All Japan Judo Championships have adopted several IJF rules. Japanese athletes aren't boycotting IJF kata or shiai contests either. They are eagerly participating hoping each time in vain that a miracle will occur and that suddenly Japanese technical magic and woowoo will mesmerize Riner. The reality is different. Japan needs to use its moral weight, which it still have. Many people are displeased with current IJF rules, people who love real, technical judo. Japan needs to take the lead in breaking away from the IJF and starting a new world judo federation that adheres to traditional judo style and values. No country would be more successful in leading such initiative than Japan. But politically, Japan would need to defend to its people why it may not be participating in the next judo Olympics, while the laborious process is started to replace the IJF as recognized international federation for judo by the IOC. This in the end will give Japan the best way for scoring better again in judo, when that judo is kept closer to what it was meant to be. Call it application of political 'jû'.

    Japan still has some of the best, most insightful and experienced judo contest experts. Satô Nobuyuki and Okano Isao are just two of them. Satô lately has been more prominently featured in AJJF dealings, Okano still is notoriously absent, a painful reminder to one of the greatest judo athletes of all time, sidelined for a picture with a different color of gi, while today top judoka run around in all colors of gi, sometimes different color jacket and pants, and while AJJF officials may have morally done far more to harm Japan's judo reputation than anyone might accuse Okano off. Satô and Okano could be the architects of a new world federation of jûdô. They have the brains, experience, knowledge, insight, instructor and coaching skills.

    I must apologize for approaching the argument presented by the original poster in this way, because I do not directly talk about who will be the next +100 kg Japanese representative. I chose to answer in this way, because who ever that person is, I think the problem is more of a virtual nature than of a true nature. Whoever it may be, it won't change a thing. Who represents Japan where today is more a question of romantic thoughts of the past in a time and day when a country such a Georgia is becoming a more significant world player than Japan.(I

    Before they challenge Riner they have to be able to defeat the other opponents. As of today the Japanese heavyweights and in particularly the +100 fighters seem to lack the confidence and explosiveness of someone like Yamashita, Suzuki or Saito. Kamikawa is the best example of the aforementioned points.
    I've watched some videos of the recent All Japan selections by weight category. I have to say that I was surprised to see how slow they looked even by heavyweight standards. I believe that the level of competition and prestige of the All Japan Judo Championships has decreased. People where so happy to see Kato (-90)win last year but when you look at his recent results in International events they're quit under par. You have to wonder if he would have been able to achieve the same feat a couple of years ago when the likes of Inoue, Ishii, Suzuki and Muneta whmonths to ere still around. I seriously doubt it.

    Riner an exceptional athlete. But I've seen some holes in his Ne-Waza the only issue is that there is no one to exploit it. Which is why I believe they need someone in the vain of Yamashita or Saito and yes I know they don't come very often.
    There only hope as of now is that there is some unknown kid today training in a Judo dojo and blessed with the physicality and skills to defeat Riner.

    About the AJJF situation with the IJF. "L'esprit du Judo" recently published an article about the difference of philosophy and management styles between Uemura and Yamashita. They basically described Uemura as a "yes man" with no authority and influence outside of his own federation. Yamashita in contrast is more blunt and wants to preserve the concept of "technical judo" Japan's influence. With the news coming out that Uemura will leave his position as the AJJF president things might take another turn in the months to come.
    The truth is today the Japanese Federation only cares about the Olympic games, in fact they will introduce a national raking system in a couple of weeks.

    http://www.lespritdujudo.com/magazines/le-japon-au-bord-de-l-explosion


    _________________
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Roman 3:23-26


    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8-10
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:47 am

    The_Harvest wrote:Before they challenge Riner they have to be able to defeat the other opponents. As of today the Japanese heavyweights and in particularly the +100 fighters seem to lack the confidence and explosiveness of someone like Yamashita, Suzuki or Saito. Kamikawa is the best example of the aforementioned points.
    I've watched some videos of the recent All Japan selections by weight category. I have to say that I was surprised to see how slow they looked even by heavyweight standards. I believe that the level of competition and prestige of the All Japan Judo Championships has decreased. People where so happy to see Kato (-90)win last year but when you look at his recent results in International events they're quit under par. You have to wonder if he would have been able to achieve the same feat a couple of years ago when the likes of Inoue, Ishii, Suzuki and Muneta whmonths to ere still around. I seriously doubt it.

    Riner an exceptional athlete. But I've seen some holes in his Ne-Waza the only issue is that there is no one to exploit it. Which is why I believe they need someone in the vain of Yamashita or Saito and yes I know they don't come very often.
    There only hope as of now is that there is some unknown kid today training in a Judo dojo and blessed with the physicality and skills to defeat Riner.

    About the AJJF situation with the IJF. "L'esprit du Judo" recently published an article about the difference of philosophy and management styles between Uemura and Yamashita. They basically described Uemura as a "yes man" with no authority and influence outside of his own federation. Yamashita in contrast is more blunt and wants to preserve the concept of "technical judo" Japan's influence. With the news coming out that Uemura will leave his position as the AJJF president things might take another turn in the months to come.
    The truth is today the Japanese Federation only cares about the Olympic games, in fact they will introduce a national raking system in a couple of weeks.

    http://www.lespritdujudo.com/magazines/le-japon-au-bord-de-l-explosion

    Sure.

    I have great difficulties believing that Uemura would be a "yes-man" though. On the contrary. He isn't a "yes-man" within the Kôdôkan and has been replacing and staffing positions with loyals from the moment he got the positions, and he isn't a "yes-man" with regard to the IJF.

    I have copies of personal correspondence between him and the IJF and what strikes me the most is the bluntness with which the IJF addresses him or has put his objections aside in the past. The IJF's tone to Uemura at occasions has been patronizing (when I say 'IJF' I am referring particularly to Vizer and to Barcos/Refereeing Committee) There used to be a time that from the moment any Japanese woohooshidan stepped in the room, Westerners would revert to this worshipping kind of brown-nosing attitude. This is now completely different, at least when IJF leadership is involved. The IJF in terms of judo authority clearly puts itself much higher than any Japanese institution. It's like the IJF KNOWS that Japan has no choice but to eat out of its hand if it wants to keep any chance on Olympic medals open. Also the kind of attitude I discern in that correspondence is that the IJF is still retaliating against Japan (in different ways) for its support to past president Park back in 2007 rather than supporting Vizer. It's like Vizer is constantly saying "you lost, and I am going to make you feel that any opportunity I get".


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
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    seatea

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by seatea on Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:27 am

    The_Harvest wrote:This will also be Takamasa Anai's last tournament, a great -100 judo player and in my opinion one of the biggest underachievers in Judo (competitions).

    I agree. I really wanted him to do well in the Olympics last year. Beautiful uchi-mata.
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    The_Harvest

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by The_Harvest on Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:00 am

    Well, the 2013 All Japan has ended with a Victory from Takamasa Anai (his second overall) over Hisayoshi Harasawa. A couple of points I got from this years edition.

    Firstly: Anai made short work of all his opponents prior to the final including the number 2 and 4 heavyweight in Japan.
    Although I have to admit that the final could have gone either way. What made the difference was Anai's experience in Kumi-Kata. Harasawa was unable to settle his position in order to perform his throws.



    Secondly: Japan might have found the new leader of the +100 category. Harasawa is only 20 years old and this was his first participation nonetheless many taught of him as one of the big favourites for the victory.
    He was undefeated in his last 4 tournaments prior to his loss to Anai. He has good Ashi-Waza (especially his Uchi-Mata) I didn't see much of his Ne-Waza today so I can't really say much about that. He is around the same height as Shinohara (1,91 cm/ 6'3) and weights 120 kg.



    He'll have to confirm his position in 2 weeks during the All Japan Weight selections.

    A 17 years old high school student made his début (Kazuya Sato) he is the youngest since Inoue in 1996 to compete in the All Japan Championships. Not much to say about the other heavyweights Shichinohe was dissapointing and doesn't seem to be able to use his superior speed and athleticism against his fellow countrymen. Momose got dominated by Anai. Ishii got thrown in 16 seconds by a wonderful Tai-Otoshi from Anai.



    _________________
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Roman 3:23-26


    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8-10

    idealab

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by idealab on Wed May 01, 2013 11:31 am

    Japan could use someone like Wei Xiang Jun from China, whom they have expressed
    very high opinion in the past. If he had more training partners, more international
    experience, he could beat Riner. Look at the semi-final match in the 2007 World Championships,
    he lost to Riner in the last second, on the clock by a yuko, most likely because the bell rang and he relaxed. Imagine if that guy had more chances to train and compete abroad.

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    The_Harvest

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by The_Harvest on Wed May 01, 2013 5:57 pm

    17 years old Sato against Momose. Who does he remind you of?






    _________________
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Roman 3:23-26


    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8-10
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    finarashi

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by finarashi on Wed May 01, 2013 7:14 pm

    The_Harvest wrote:17 years old Sato against Momose. Who does he remind you of?


    Intersting gripping and attacks in the first two minutes. Two handed gripping? Parisi? The further the match went the larger the difference in endurance came. But five years of training and that guy is only 22. In five years the strenght and endurance gains are going to be huge. Maybe already top in 2016 but definetely 2020 accidents and injuries permitting.


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    The_Harvest

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    Re: The search for The next Yamashita

    Post by The_Harvest on Wed May 01, 2013 7:55 pm

    finarashi wrote:
    The_Harvest wrote:17 years old Sato against Momose. Who does he remind you of?


    Intersting gripping and attacks in the first two minutes. Two handed gripping? Parisi? The further the match went the larger the difference in endurance came. But five years of training and that guy is only 22. In five years the strenght and endurance gains are going to be huge. Maybe already top in 2016 but definetely 2020 accidents and injuries permitting.

    I was not thinking of Parisi but they do share some similarities. This is who I was thinking of:



    _________________
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Roman 3:23-26


    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8-10

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