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    Anti-sacrifice throw fans

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    Q mystic

    Posts : 319
    Join date : 2013-02-10

    Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by Q mystic on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 am

    I remember when younger and competing I started getting into this phase of just countering with reversals. I still tried regular forward throws but they seemed to be working less and less and think that I found a nice less-stressful way of fighting by just waiting for the anticipated throw and then apply a reversal. Typically ura-nage or tani-otoshi. It seemed to work for sometime(I loved it) and then one time when I lost to a guy my sensei expected me to beat(whom I've beaten more often than not before) he flipped out on me and my reversal game.lol For some time after that he would smoke me if I did any kind of reversal. I look back now and think he lobotamized me.lol I have never since then appreciated or attempted, that I recall, much of any reversal.

    Anyone else here really consider themselves an almost absolute non-reversal type fighter?

    hedgehogey

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    Join date : 2012-12-30

    Re: Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by hedgehogey on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:09 am

    Wow man, that's some pretty powerful Stockholm Syndrome.

    I'm trying to fit in a hikkikomori-hikkikomi gaeshi joke here.
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by Q mystic on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:26 am

    hedgehogey wrote:Wow man, that's some pretty powerful Stockholm Syndrome.

    I'm trying to fit in a hikkikomori-hikkikomi gaeshi joke here.

    lol. Googled that. I suspect that most wouldnt, sry, won't put much stalk into the story. Very Happy

    You're just piffed that I don't like gaurd, Very Happy

    Hanon

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    Re: Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by Hanon on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:58 am

    Q mystic wrote:I remember when younger and competing I started getting into this phase of just countering with reversals. I still tried regular forward throws but they seemed to be working less and less and think that I found a nice less-stressful way of fighting by just waiting for the anticipated throw and then apply a reversal. Typically ura-nage or tani-otoshi. It seemed to work for sometime(I loved it) and then one time when I lost to a guy my sensei expected me to beat(whom I've beaten more often than not before) he flipped out on me and my reversal game.lol For some time after that he would smoke me if I did any kind of reversal. I look back now and think he lobotamized me.lol I have never since then appreciated or attempted, that I recall, much of any reversal.

    Anyone else here really consider themselves an almost absolute non-reversal type fighter?

    I very very seldom countered. I wanted and needed to win by an attack. It was how I was taught and how I used to teach.

    There was a phase some years ago of fighters waiting for each other to attack so one could drag the other to the floor in some sort of tani otoshi esque thing. worse than watching paint dry. I taught my pupils how to overcome this and it added yet more arrows to be used with our bows.

    Mike


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    Ricebale

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    Re: Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by Ricebale on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:48 am

    Those throws you mention Q such as ura nage and tani otoshi are direct attack throws for me. I find I can out attack a more skilled player but I cannot out counter a more skilled player. Also mentality wise I think the forward game suits me.

    The counter fighter usually has to have the better timing and execution than his opponent, or lucky.

    Cheers
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by Q mystic on Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:44 am

    Ricebale wrote:Those throws you mention Q such as ura nage and tani otoshi are direct attack throws for me. I find I can out attack a more skilled player but I cannot out counter a more skilled player. Also mentality wise I think the forward game suits me.

    The counter fighter usually has to have the better timing and execution than his opponent, or lucky.

    Cheers

    Not sure what you mean Rice. Just to be clear, I did counter but didn't reverse. You know what I mean. Ah, I see. You are still playing my old game, offensively, just like I did? I wonder if I stayed if it would've made me a better fighter but right now feel that it made me flatfooted. Or moreso, that I learned to dance w/o it.lol I did tani offense but cant see uranage offence and suspect you are saying these are typically all direct offence.(?)

    I disagree with the counter fighter having better anything really tho.
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    Q mystic

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    Re: Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by Q mystic on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:00 am

    Hanon wrote:
    Q mystic wrote:I remember when younger and competing I started getting into this phase of just countering with reversals. I still tried regular forward throws but they seemed to be working less and less and think that I found a nice less-stressful way of fighting by just waiting for the anticipated throw and then apply a reversal. Typically ura-nage or tani-otoshi. It seemed to work for sometime(I loved it) and then one time when I lost to a guy my sensei expected me to beat(whom I've beaten more often than not before) he flipped out on me and my reversal game.lol For some time after that he would smoke me if I did any kind of reversal. I look back now and think he lobotamized me.lol I have never since then appreciated or attempted, that I recall, much of any reversal.

    Anyone else here really consider themselves an almost absolute non-reversal type fighter?

    I very very seldom countered. I wanted and needed to win by an attack. It was how I was taught and how I used to teach.

    There was a phase some years ago of fighters waiting for each other to attack so one could drag the other to the floor in some sort of tani otoshi esque thing. worse than watching paint dry. I taught my pupils how to overcome this and it added yet more arrows to be used with our bows.

    Mike


    Worse than watching paint dry? To the spectator.lol I could've been taller you know.lol That, and Canadian immigration is why I'm not rich.lol

    I like your coaching style Hanon. I think its why I learned the other, very few, offensive techs that I did. Not, that its more effective. It might be.
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:21 pm

    Q mystic wrote:I remember when younger and competing I started getting into this phase of just countering with reversals. I still tried regular forward throws but they seemed to be working less and less and think that I found a nice less-stressful way of fighting by just waiting for the anticipated throw and then apply a reversal. Typically ura-nage or tani-otoshi. It seemed to work for sometime(I loved it) and then one time when I lost to a guy my sensei expected me to beat(whom I've beaten more often than not before) he flipped out on me and my reversal game.lol For some time after that he would smoke me if I did any kind of reversal. I look back now and think he lobotamized me.lol I have never since then appreciated or attempted, that I recall, much of any reversal.

    Anyone else here really consider themselves an almost absolute non-reversal type fighter?

    I am confused by your terminology. What is "I started getting into this phase of just countering with reversals" ? 'Counters' and 'reversals' are synonyms. The first term in Japanese is kaeshi-waza, the second ura-waza, but they mean the same. I do not see how one can counter without reversals.

    Countering or reversing in jûdô is divided over three different groups:

    - sen-no-sen
    - sen-sen-no-sen
    - go-no-sen

    At lower levels when on counters/reverses one usually makes use of go-no-sen, as overall it requires less technical sophistication in the sense of debana and kuzushi.


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    Q mystic

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    Re: Anti-sacrifice throw fans

    Post by Q mystic on Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:44 pm

    Cichorei Kano wrote:
    Q mystic wrote:I remember when younger and competing I started getting into this phase of just countering with reversals. I still tried regular forward throws but they seemed to be working less and less and think that I found a nice less-stressful way of fighting by just waiting for the anticipated throw and then apply a reversal. Typically ura-nage or tani-otoshi. It seemed to work for sometime(I loved it) and then one time when I lost to a guy my sensei expected me to beat(whom I've beaten more often than not before) he flipped out on me and my reversal game.lol For some time after that he would smoke me if I did any kind of reversal. I look back now and think he lobotamized me.lol I have never since then appreciated or attempted, that I recall, much of any reversal.

    Anyone else here really consider themselves an almost absolute non-reversal type fighter?

    I am confused by your terminology. What is "I started getting into this phase of just countering with reversals" ? 'Counters' and 'reversals' are synonyms. The first term in Japanese is kaeshi-waza, the second ura-waza, but they mean the same. I do not see how one can counter without reversals.

    Countering or reversing in jûdô is divided over three different groups:

    - sen-no-sen
    - sen-sen-no-sen
    - go-no-sen

    At lower levels when on counters/reverses one usually makes use of go-no-sen, as overall it requires less technical sophistication in the sense of debana and kuzushi.

    Yeah, lol. Sry, thats right. I think I just lazily considered a reversal a stop/block and reverse action; and a counter a go with the flow and beat him. For instance, I would have just said that a typical ura-nage is a reversal and say, the counter to uchimata where you step ahead of him (or not) with more control for throw, is a counter.

    I can now see that they are both counters and reversals tho.


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