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    Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

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    Hanon

    Posts : 537
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

    Post by Hanon on Tue May 14, 2013 6:49 am

    sodo wrote:
    Ben Reinhardt wrote:Did you find out the reason the new rule came about?

    They told me it was because alot of kids are claustrophobic and kesa gatame cause them stress and scares them, so we should only allow kids (unter 16 years) to use the kazure version and that the grading syllabus has been changed accordingly.

    go figure pale

    atb

    sodo

    This is much more significant than one would think. It is not uncommon for a person to join a club then find it a panic situation when being held on the floor.

    I am NOT suggesting the reaction of banning kesa gatame is the correct response.

    I teach kesa gatame as the first of the ne waza.

    What is the point, from a psychological point, of banning kesa gatame when the panic some have is not the specific hold but being immobilised and their free space not only invaded but blocked from free movement, this is equally achieved in all the osae waza.

    I think it vital that teachers are made aware that some pupils do panic when held and judo can actually be used as a teaching aid to help support a pupil who is facing that difficulty.

    Banning any osae waza for the reason given is absurd as all osae waza have the potential to cause this panic stress syndrome.

    I would respectfully suggest to all teachers to be aware of this syndrome and teach with caution to those who show this fear. In my years of teaching I come across at least one every couple of years who to some degree or another cannot cope with being immobilised.

    I have no idea why the German federation reacted specifically to kesa gatame. Kuzure will induce the same reaction to being immobilised as kesa gatame will.

    There are teaching aids that help a pupils with this situation and rather than ban kesa gatme I would respectfully suggest that the German federation teach how teachers treat such a situation. There are definitive steps that can and do help a pupil overcome this fear and panic.

    I do congratulate the German federation though for recognising this syndrome does exist and its certainly not only children who suffer the problem.

    Mike

    PS even as a seasoned judoka until I practiced ne waza randori with Awazu sensei I didn't know what fear through immobilisation meant. He scared the life out of me and I discovered what its like to feel the life being drained from you as one starts to lose consciousness. Shime waza I was used to it but not the osae waza. I can relate to what a novice may feel. Some of the wisest teachers never forget what it was like to be a pupil.


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    medo

    Posts : 276
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

    Post by medo on Wed May 15, 2013 8:11 am

    Had same problem with different clubs over the years one telling me udegarami was illegal?

    But the main one that comes to mind was Hadakajime had visited many times over the years and as usual was given the higher grades for a newaza lesson so went through my usual leg control (BJJ hooks in I believe!) be one with the tori and feed fake forearm in so tori grabs that. Then feed other forearm under. Hey presto tori starts to panic(move) and Hadaka is on, depending on tori’s movements, depends how it finishes on this occasion traditional Hadaka with the arm locking behind back of neck.
    Everyone on the mat said that was now illegal. No I said, provided you don’t push the head forward and put pressure on the vertebrae, then quite legal! But was over ruled by the main Sensei there, so I Just said it was the old way and henka’d it to something else. But very annoying…….

    JudoTerrier

    Posts : 16
    Join date : 2013-01-10
    Location : North Carolina, USA

    Re: Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

    Post by JudoTerrier on Wed May 15, 2013 8:26 am

    Personally I find kami-shiho-gatame to be much more claustrophobia-inducing than kesa......never mind the gi burn on your face.....

    Gus

    Posts : 136
    Join date : 2013-03-01

    Re: Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

    Post by Gus on Thu May 16, 2013 12:57 am

    Unbelievably idiotic - its the first thing everyone learns . Its like banning the ABC when teaching people how to read. Judo helps people deal with uncomfortable situations - how can it do that if you ban uncomfortable situations ?

    sodo

    Posts : 168
    Join date : 2013-01-11
    Location : Europe

    Re: Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

    Post by sodo on Thu May 16, 2013 1:59 am

    Gus wrote:Unbelievably idiotic - its the first thing everyone learns . Its like banning the ABC when teaching people how to read. Judo helps people deal with uncomfortable situations - how can it do that if you ban uncomfortable situations ?

    I remember my younger brother learning to read and write at a school in England in the seventies, ABC was banned they learnt AAH, BEH , CAY and some funny sqiggles that represented the phonetic alphabet.

    atb

    sodo


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    BillC

    Posts : 806
    Join date : 2012-12-28
    Location : Vista, California

    Re: Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

    Post by BillC on Thu May 16, 2013 2:04 am

    sodo wrote:
    Gus wrote:Unbelievably idiotic - its the first thing everyone learns . Its like banning the ABC when teaching people how to read. Judo helps people deal with uncomfortable situations - how can it do that if you ban uncomfortable situations ?

    I remember my younger brother learning to read and write at a school in England in the seventies, ABC was banned they learnt AAH, BEH , CAY and some funny sqiggles that represented the phonetic alphabet.

    atb

    sodo

    an duz hee spel lik dis nau?


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    Davaro

    Posts : 224
    Join date : 2013-01-04
    Location : South Africa

    Re: Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

    Post by Davaro on Thu May 16, 2013 2:45 am

    BillC wrote:
    sodo wrote:
    Gus wrote:Unbelievably idiotic - its the first thing everyone learns . Its like banning the ABC when teaching people how to read. Judo helps people deal with uncomfortable situations - how can it do that if you ban uncomfortable situations ?

    I remember my younger brother learning to read and write at a school in England in the seventies, ABC was banned they learnt AAH, BEH , CAY and some funny sqiggles that represented the phonetic alphabet.

    atb

    sodo

    an duz hee spel lik dis nau?

    Sounds Russian...


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    Gus

    Posts : 136
    Join date : 2013-03-01

    Re: Banning Kesa Gatame below yellowbelt

    Post by Gus on Thu May 16, 2013 9:02 pm

    I mean next they'll be banning skydivers from jumping out of planes because some people get vertigo - I mean comon !!!!

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