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    The Future of US Judo

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    Jerry Hays

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    The Future of US Judo

    Post by Jerry Hays on Thu May 16, 2013 9:30 am

    Please see attached.

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    BillC

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    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by BillC on Thu May 16, 2013 10:15 am

    Sensei, who wrote this?


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    Jerry Hays

    Posts : 142
    Join date : 2012-12-31

    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by Jerry Hays on Thu May 16, 2013 10:39 am

    BillC wrote:Sensei, who wrote this?

    On the the page where it is listed in this forum, it says "By Hayward Nishioka".

    When will you be back in San Diego area?????
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    Cichorei Kano

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    Location : the Holy See

    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Thu May 16, 2013 10:39 am

    Sorry if the thread is supposed to be only on that specific written peace, but I nevertheless wanted to mention that in May last year there was also an interesting entry by AnnMaria on her blog about the future of judo and downward participation trend in US judo:

    http://drannmaria.blogspot.be/2012/05/future-of-judo-matwork-may-not-be-judo.html


    _________________


    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."
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    BillC

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    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by BillC on Thu May 16, 2013 12:55 pm

    Jerry Hays wrote:
    BillC wrote:Sensei, who wrote this?

    On the the page where it is listed in this forum, it says "By Hayward Nishioka".

    When will you be back in San Diego area?????

    Sounded like him ... but I just gave it a quick glance. I noticed a few comments about changing generations, the changing nature of judo in the US. None of it is new, but coming on the heels of the recent national meeting it's clear that a lot of old timers still don't acknowledge or accept that things are not the way they were ... if they ever were the way they were in the first place ... for example in the undertone of assumed Japanese natural superiority in all things judo.

    Back on the weekend, will be a human being again some time mid-week.



    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

    idealab

    Posts : 37
    Join date : 2013-04-01

    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by idealab on Sun May 19, 2013 12:25 am

    Judo's nature by itself does not discourage participants even in the modern age competing against all sorts of gadgets. In Europe, judo is strong and will likely to be the strongest continent for years to come. There are many things to be changed in American judo. Generally speaking, most judo instructors need to approach judo with a modern approach. That means, you cannot have an one-size-fits-all class. Beginner, intermidiate and advanced students need different intensity throughout their respective time in the class. One of the most annoying aspect of visiting most judo school for me is that the intensity of the class is not high enough and on a day to day basis, there is no good program to keep up the intensity while drilling the skills. Another problem is that overall, in the U. S., most teacher's understanding of judo is simply not sufficient to teach good judo to students. The overall technical level is not very high and as a result, students can spend years on the mat and not learn effective judo. Jiujitsu (Brazilian) had the advantage that one family strictly controlled the promotion and technical proficiency at the beginning and the teachers who are qualified to teach understood well enough so their students could make many techniques effective. While tachiwaza is harder to master than newaza, without an effective teacher, it will take even longer to master certain techniques in tachiwaza! Maybe the decline is a good thing, and USJF should set apart some money to import good teachers with modern approach to the U. S., spread them out and help them with running the business aspects of a judo club. If you can't find them locally, import them.
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    NittyRanks

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    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by NittyRanks on Tue May 21, 2013 6:17 am

    Good points in the above post. One thing I notice is a lot of the local clubs and instructors don’t get paid and do it for the love of it. That’s hard to do day and day out, work a main job, have kids and other interests. I think it wears on people with such a stressful time we are living in. Maybe this could venture into another discussion but visibility is very important. There has to be an incentive for people to come to class. On the old forum I remember telling someone that our school has an MMA component and the classes are two to three times the size and are practically just waiting for the class to start anxiously. I think the rise in MMA has had a huge affect on the traditional systems that has to be addressed. A lot of instructors are in denial about it.

    Consistency in what you do is huge. Martial Arts schools and organizations can be their own worst enemy just like any other business. Most instructors of various Martial Arts disciplines I have met can’t run the business side of things. Just because you’re a 5th or 6th degree black belt does not mean you can teach and pass information on or pay the rent on time. I have seen it over and over since the late 1970’s. If you have some of the above components coupled with the fact that is an insular martial art in the first place it’s hard to gain membership. The new rules are also not helping and are forcing people to change their entire game they may have built over the years. Unless you started as a young kid Judo is incredibly hard, I know I spent time in other disciplines. You don’t see a lot of Judo Black Belts but you see a ton of Tae Kwon Do or Karate Black Belts out there. I think there are a lot of factors that should be looked at.


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    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by Guest on Wed May 22, 2013 2:44 am

    There's a couple of things I want to comment on. Mind you, nothing that I will say is a criticism of Mr. Nishioka's Judo knowledge. I'll probably get a bunch of negative votes. I don't care.


    "We have in the past had clinics to improve our organization but never a defined program that might include: how to run a meeting, Rules of Order, Successful organizational structures, six sigma, How to ask question, How to listen, etc."

    How old is the USJF? If I recall correctly it's decades old. All these years later and the "leadership" still cannot run a meeting or have some concept of order? Are things so bad that six sigma certification is on the table? In the past they haven't had a clinic. They've had "clinics"! All of this reminds me of the big companies I have worked for in the past where the executives debate how to increase worker productivity without actually talking to the workers themselves. They can't see the forest through the trees. Rank and Judo accomplishments probably play a huge role in the shenanigans that must go on during these meetings. Perhaps the people who have high rank shouldn't be leading at all. I fail to see how rank and accomplishments correlate into being able to lead a national organization but hey, I'm just a lowly shodan who seemingly can run a tighter ship when it comes to meetings and decision-making.


    "Today there is a need to build the next generation of dojo instructors. At one time the idea that ones student would think of becoming a competitor of our sensei was anathema, especially if the student in any way out did his sensei. It was only after many years of training and only with a reluctant O.K. from the instructor that anyone would venture to open their own school. This has to change. This is most likely an American phenomenon in that in the early days there were few Japanese immigrants from which a Japanese judo instructors could draw from, and loyalty to a particular sensei was highly valued. It was like the "daimyo" system."

    I have seen this happen first hand at my first Judo club. An assistant instructor who was under the head instructor for 20+ years was promptly asked to leave when the assistant asked if he could open a club in an area where there wasn't a close Judo club. That kind of mind set won't change until the old fogies die off. That is, unless the young fogies assume the same positions the old fogies once held. Good luck with that while we continue to see BJJ grow, and grow, and grow.

    Now, you can give me a - .
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    Ben Reinhardt

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    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by Ben Reinhardt on Wed May 22, 2013 5:59 am

    Dave R. wrote:There's a couple of things I want to comment on. Mind you, nothing that I will say is a criticism of Mr. Nishioka's Judo knowledge. I'll probably get a bunch of negative votes. I don't care.


    "We have in the past had clinics to improve our organization but never a defined program that might include: how to run a meeting, Rules of Order, Successful organizational structures, six sigma, How to ask question, How to listen, etc."

    How old is the USJF? If I recall correctly it's decades old. All these years later and the "leadership" still cannot run a meeting or have some concept of order? Are things so bad that six sigma certification is on the table? In the past they haven't had a clinic. They've had "clinics"! All of this reminds me of the big companies I have worked for in the past where the executives debate how to increase worker productivity without actually talking to the workers themselves. They can't see the forest through the trees. Rank and Judo accomplishments probably play a huge role in the shenanigans that must go on during these meetings. Perhaps the people who have high rank shouldn't be leading at all. I fail to see how rank and accomplishments correlate into being able to lead a national organization but hey, I'm just a lowly shodan who seemingly can run a tighter ship when it comes to meetings and decision-making.


    "Today there is a need to build the next generation of dojo instructors. At one time the idea that ones student would think of becoming a competitor of our sensei was anathema, especially if the student in any way out did his sensei. It was only after many years of training and only with a reluctant O.K. from the instructor that anyone would venture to open their own school. This has to change. This is most likely an American phenomenon in that in the early days there were few Japanese immigrants from which a Japanese judo instructors could draw from, and loyalty to a particular sensei was highly valued. It was like the "daimyo" system."

    I have seen this happen first hand at my first Judo club. An assistant instructor who was under the head instructor for 20+ years was promptly asked to leave when the assistant asked if he could open a club in an area where there wasn't a close Judo club. That kind of mind set won't change until the old fogies die off. That is, unless the young fogies assume the same positions the old fogies once held. Good luck with that while we continue to see BJJ grow, and grow, and grow.

    Now, you can give me a - .

    No nee for negatives, you make great observations that are born out by my experience.
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    BillC

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    Re: The Future of US Judo

    Post by BillC on Thu May 23, 2013 2:03 am

    Problem is with the article posted ... and without any criticism of a sensei I know and am fond of ... it's very difficult to get consensus on what judo is ... even within or maybe especially within ... the USJF.

    If one cannot even approach a definition of what judo is, what good is it to try to improve it?

    Going a bit further ... one of the first things I learned in the business world is "you get what you measure." Mr. Nishioka seems to be a proponent of this as well, however if one measures success in gold medals then again we are probably all not talking about the same subject and we may end up with a judo that is far from its origins and principles.

    If we measure simply in numbers of paying students we could end up with a judo that has the consistency, intelligence and strength of whipped jello ... a criticism sometimes leveled at another US judo organization.

    Then if we buy into the old proposition and measure judo by how "Japanese" it is we run into the uncomfortable fact that judo in Japan is having it's own crisis of identity at the moment ... "What, we are not the inevitable and unquestioned masters? We are losing our best and brightest to the likes of baseball and pop music? We can't make make students do whatever we want to anymore?" ... a 15 minute lecture I received last Thursday within unobstructed view of Kano-shihan's chair ... from someone highly placed inside of the Kodokan ... someone Japanese if that matters.

    Flip all these things on their head to come up with some positive suggestions and I might offer as humble talking points which I hope build and support Mr. Nishioka's excellent suggestions ...

    First of all, I find it baffling that we struggle with new rules as they come out every 5 minutes. Besides the fact that our decision makers for sanctioned tournament rules happen to be IJF referees that are paid to travel, why must be slavishly adhere to them even as they cause great difficulty? If we measure by tournament result the quality of our judo on a wide scale, why can we not issue a subset of the rules that is simple to enforce by amateurs and which increases the number of possible competition events?

    Second, the reputation of USJF rank is not perfect, but certainly well regarded by comparison. Can we encourage and applaud efforts to include coursework in refereeing, teaching, kata, etc. a part of dan grade promotion rather than a separate track. Isn't is a bit odd to have referees, for example, that almost never DO judo? But isn't it equally odd to have dan grades that aren't automatically assumed to have any refereeing credential?

    Third, it is important not to lose our judo roots ... as the IJF and its local arm clearly have ... among whose leadership I have heard the non-elite membership referred to cynically as "the ATM." This is a complicated point worthy of its own thread ... but I have had occasion to graph membership by age and have been surprised at the large number who are not minor children. I mentioned this to NBK last weekend, noting that when people walk into the dojo they probably all come in with a samurai and geisha fantasy ... something attractive that European jacket wrestling is not going to provide ... besides the fact that the average thirty-year-old cannot hope to be ready physically for true competitive training ... what works to gain medals is not going to work for them.

    But assuming that because someone has "yama" or "shita" or something like that in their family name does not mean they know anything about those roots in either a scholarly or practical way. A wider understanding of a more inclusive view of judo beyond medals for kids (and I put anyone under thirty in that category) requires some homework because there is a portion of judo ... and I am not going to use the "k-word" ... whose meaning seems nearly lost. We might lean on ... and honor ... the efforts of our archivist and historians ... the "living books" among us for the scholarly content and quality of their work ... on and off the mat.

    Heck, get with the guy who gave me the 15 minute lecture and who knows what kind of common problems we can solve?


    _________________
    Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    - Kipling

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