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    Counter against Osoto gake?

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    Kot

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    Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by Kot on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:20 am

    Please advise counter against Osoto Gake for tall green belt judoka.

    Thank in advance,
    Steve

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:43 am

    Kot wrote:Please advise counter against Osoto Gake for tall green belt judoka.

    Thank in advance,
    Steve

    Ki, lots of ki.


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    rjohnston411

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by rjohnston411 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:12 am

    Hm, ko soto gake is usually countered by uchimata.

    Dunno what o soto gake is. Maybe find your answer in the diving crystals.

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:32 am

    rjohnston411 wrote:Hm, ko soto gake is usually countered by uchimata.

    Dunno what o soto gake is. Maybe find your answer in the diving crystals.



    ô-soto-gake as a term was sometimes seen during the 1970s and earlier. However, the Kôdôkan has officially decided that any movement similar to ô-soto-gari irrespective of whether the leg of the opponent is swept, reaped or hooked is ô-soto-gari, hence rejecting any alternative names like ô-soto-barai or ô-soto-gake. Similarly, all movement from between the legs if in small movement, are ko-uchi-gari irrespective of whether the leg is swept, reaped, of hooked and you continue to the ground or not, hence why there is no ko-uchi-barai, ko-uchi-gake or ko-uchi-makikomi under Kôdôkan. Same explanation for ô-uchi-gari.

    In conclusion, there is no such thing as ô-soto-gake in Kôdôkan jûdô.


    Last edited by Cichorei Kano on Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    genetic judoka

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by genetic judoka on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:37 pm

    advice from a fellow tall guy, who was once a green belt: drop your weight, and pivot into the hip throw of your choice. uki goshi being my favorite from that situation.

    or if you're fast enough, step back with the target leg before they can enter, and de ashi harai or kosoto gari. sometimes I can turn it into okuri ashi harai. it's a very gratifying throw to land like that.

    I couldn't do the de ashi harai counter as a green belt, but what the heck, give it a shot.


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    charlietuna

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by charlietuna on Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:41 pm

    O-Soto Gake is just like O-soto gari but usually done from kind of an across the body position where you hook the leg you're attacking. When people have tried it on me, I dropped my weight a little, turned towards them, and threw my leg up like you would on Uchi mata or an O-Soto Gari. The other option is to turn into them, reach across the back of both of their legs, and drop into a sort of O-Soto Otoshi, or like, a backwards tai otoshi. This method has the least risk, but they may be able to step out of it and regain their balance.

    Ricebale

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by Ricebale on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:06 pm



    If its this move turn towards the opponent and the throw is lost, cheers

    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:37 pm

    The fact that someone on the video has put the name "O-soto-gake" does not mean that such is the name of the throw. The throw shown still qualifies as ô-soto-gari although technically not performed very well. As pointed out, there does not exist any throw called "ô-soto-gake" in Kôdôkan jûdô.

    Ô-soto-gari in theory can be countered by almost every other jûdô throw. Certainly it isn't so that only certain specific throws would be possible against ô-soto-gari, but the unique character of the opponent, timing, and whether the throw is carried out as sen-no-sen, go-no-sen, or sen-sen-no-sen will affect the choice of the most optimal technique in the spirit of sei-ryoku-zen'yô.

    Among the throws that are very commonly chosen to counter ô-soto-gari, I list:

    - ô-soto-gaeshi
    - hiza-guruma
    - ô-goshi
    - harai-goshi
    - hane-goshi
    - ô-soto-guruma
    - sukui-nage (te-guruma variant)

    Clearly, the optimal choice of throw is strongly determined by what direction the opponent can be brought out of balance, since some of the throws listed are towards the backside, while others are towards the front side.


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    Kot

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by Kot on Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:08 am

    Thank you guys so much  for your valuable  feedback.
    Steve

    still learning

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by still learning on Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:37 am

    Te-guruma was one of my preferred counters, however it is now banned in many competitions. So do bear this in mind when choosing what to work on.

    afulldeck

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by afulldeck on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:19 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:The fact that someone on the video has put the name "O-soto-gake" does not mean that such is the name of the throw. The throw shown still qualifies as ô-soto-gari although technically not performed very well. As pointed out, there does not exist any throw called "ô-soto-gake" in Kôdôkan jûdô.

    Ô-soto-gari in theory can be countered by almost every other jûdô throw. Certainly it isn't so that only certain specific throws would be possible against ô-soto-gari, but the unique character of the opponent, timing, and whether the throw is carried out as sen-no-sen, go-no-sen, or sen-sen-no-sen will affect the choice of the most optimal technique in the spirit of sei-ryoku-zen'yô.

    Among the throws that are very commonly chosen to counter ô-soto-gari, I list:

    - ô-soto-gaeshi
    - hiza-guruma
    - ô-goshi
    - harai-goshi
    - hane-goshi
    - ô-soto-guruma
    - sukui-nage (te-guruma variant)

    Clearly, the optimal choice of throw is strongly determined by what direction the opponent can be brought out of balance, since some of the throws listed are towards the backside, while others are towards the front side.

    CK is absolutely right, but if your adventurous you could try this :



    It more fun Very Happy


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    finarashi

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by finarashi on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:02 am

    .. and you learn amazing things every day, wow!


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    Cichorei Kano

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by Cichorei Kano on Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:36 am

    This movement works best after two Big Macks and  6 daiquiris.

    The correct name of the counter-techniques is:

    [i]chūgaeri[/i] or [i]bakuten[/i].

    '[i]Chū[/i]' in this context means 'air'. The word in full thus means "turning in midair"[i]. [/i]

    In the second term [i][i]'bakuten' [/i][/i]the [i][i]'baku' [/i][/i]comes from the English 'back' and[i][i] 'ten' [/i][/i]means roll. Thus the term in full means [i]"[/i]backward sommersault".

    The name of the full movement (which is actually a double counter) is:


    [i]Ō-soto-gari[/i] + [i][i]chūgaeri [/i]+ ude-hishigi-waki-gatame
    [/i]


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    "The world is a republic of mediocrities, and always was." (Thomas Carlyle)
    "Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." (Blaise Pascal)
    "Quand on essaie, c'est difficile. Quand on n'essaie pas, c'est impossible" (Guess Who ?)
    "I am never wrong. Once I thought I was, and that was a mistake."

    afulldeck

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by afulldeck on Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:05 am

    Cichorei Kano wrote:This movement works best after two Big Macks and  6 daiquiris.

    The correct name of the counter-techniques is:

    chūgaeri or bakuten.

    'Chū' in this context means 'air'. The word in full thus means "turning in midair".

    In the second term 'bakuten' the 'baku' comes from the English 'back' and 'ten' means roll. Thus the term in full means "backward sommersault".

    The name of the full movement (which is actually a double counter) is:


    Ō-soto-gari + chūgaeri + ude-hishigi-waki-gatame

    Haven't tried it with the Big Macks or the daiquiris, but perhaps I should try it Russian style. Can someone pass me the volka?


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    Q mystic

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by Q mystic on Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:06 am

    I've never had luck with counters to osoto. I usually try to stop their kuzushi but if I don't then I'm thrown and usually just do my best to twist out of a big score.


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    nomoremondays

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    Re: Counter against Osoto gake?

    Post by nomoremondays on Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:22 am

    To TS,

    I'm a judoka with mediocre capabilities.

    Some years ago, I was doing randori with a beginner. I think it was a white
    or a yellow belt, I forget. Someone had told him the old thing about putting
    your heart and soul into one throw and one throw alone in randori. So all he
    did try was try osoto gari against me.

    I went along for a bit, taking the falls. Then I did the usual counters - osoto vs osoto,
    gentle te-gurumas etc. After a while, I started wondering if I could do my tokui-waza
    against osoto. So the next time the person stepped in with a right osoto, I back spun,
    and threw him smoothly with my right morote seoinage.  I was quite surprised with that.
    I started practicing that counter against other belts then.
    Soon after,I was able to counter osoto gari with my morote seoinage against black belts and others.
    Of course as with all counters the success rate was not 100%, but its good enough that one
    days I'm feeling athletic I prefer it to the usual push vs push, osoto vs osoto counter.
    The long story short is,  I suppose, there can be many counters to a throw, some
    obvious and some not so obvious.

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